SHOOTOUT 6: KRS-One

This is Greg Wallace, and you're listening to Hip Hop World Cup, the world's tastiest podcast. Hello dear listener and welcome to Hip Hop World Cup shoot out, the podcast that pits golden age rappers and producers against each other to find the ultimate champions. I'm your host, Danny Phillips, and as usual, I'm joined by the man who thought Terminator X was a pest control company, Steve Hitchcock. And that's. True, actually. Yeah, he should. If he isn't doing it already, he should be. And the man who thought the jizzer was slang for a male porn star, James Luskin.

How are you both? Yeah, good. Thanks. It's been a little while, isn't it? We haven't done one of these for a bit. So there's we've had a lot to catch up on and so it's nice to be back. Talking about hip hop, we're coming to you live from the South Bronx, where we're presiding over a solo shootout about the music of the Blastmaster KRS-one. He's a teacher, philosopher and hip hop legend, and we're going to discuss ten of his iconic tracks to find out which one reigns supreme over nearly everyone.

So I did there, Steve. Yeah, Like that. I thought you'd like that, Steve. This was your choice of topic. I'm a big fan of his, I know. So tell us why you wanted to do it and why you love KRS-one so much. Yeah, I have been really excited about this. So I'm, I'm, I'm hoping that at least one of you shares a little bit of my enthusiasm. I'm looking at Larry here with a bit of scepticism. So, yeah, so I thought like, let's just break this down for those that that don't know, or if you haven't heard of KRS-one, then you're probably living in a hip hop cave because he is an absolute legend.

And if you listen to hip hop, you'd have heard probably nearly every rapper mention him. He gets he gets shout out I think from everything because of the respect they have for him and if they don't mention him he will get quoted or sampled. He is very, very heavily. He's like the Godfather, one of the godfathers. I go further that I think if there was a president of Hip Hop, he would be the president because of the respect that he has the longevity. So we're talking about someone who who arrived on the scene with with Boogie Down Productions BDP in in 1986, which is just that just the point where hip hop was starting to really kind of like flourish in the kind of mid 80s.

And then his his DJ Scott the rock got got got murdered the year after his his debut album was released. But then since then he's been releasing. I can't even remember how many albums he he's he's released. But also pretty underrated producer as well. So he does do he does do a lot of production on on a lot of his his albums. Absolutely. As well, And in fact, we're going to be touching on one of those in our list of tracks. Definitely. And then just to kind of like waxwork a little bit more about this, I think he he set a really high bar for hip hop in the end of the day in a couple of ways.

So first is like lyrically he's he's very, very skilful. 2nd, just the way that he kind of sounds and a lot of his incredible voice tracks. Yeah, but he's not just his voice, but I think also the production, like a lot of his like if he's the president of hip hop, there's there's there's some anthems I think from the early days of hip hop that that everybody will know about. And 3rd, as you alluded to in your introduction, he's a teacher. He kind of combines, he's got this weird combination of combining a bit of like being a bit of a gangster with philosophy, which I think which make for some kind of really interesting raps.

So, yeah, so I think if you don't know him, if you've never listened to him, then you you're missing out on a on on the president of hip hop. Absolutely. What great summary that was the thank you for that, Larry. What can I can? I can I have a round of. Applause. Oh yeah, sure. Let me, let me just. I don't. Want to get like the opposite? Yeah, absolutely. That's a shame. You have to ask for it yourself. But yeah, Larry, talk us through your relationship with KOS One and his music. I, I came to him like pretty late.

I, I always kind of knew of him because he's that kind of, you know, sort of big. Figure in hip hop so respected. But other than him being having a verse on one to pass it, yeah, I don't think I've really heard much of his stuff. I've never already had any KRS-one or BDP stuff like back in the day that I taped off off of you or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. So my kind of proper introduction to him was in 2000 when a compilation of his stuff was released called Retrospective. It's basically the best of KRS.

Ones. Would you say that's your favourite? And, and that is literally my favourite KRS-one. That was the best of KRS-one because it's just like, it's just a pretty flawless list of, of songs like spread between BDP and, and his solo work. And yeah, I, I have gone back and I've also got like a best of BDP, like off off the back of that. And I have investigated all of their kind of albums individually, but there are no kind of whole albums that are in my proper kind of rotate. He is like a singles and a best of kind of artist for me.

And I always kind of, I always kind of think of him as like the not the mirror image, but a sort of he's, he's like a Chuck D. Yes, like him and Chuck D. Strike me as being a very similar, yeah. They're in that same sort. Of they're cut from the same cloth, yeah, they're just really. Really strong voices and strong. Voices, they're socially conscious, socially conscious, they're all about knowledge and knowledge is power and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, really influential. But I, I, I expect kind of back in the back in the sort of early days of hip hop or in our early days of it, I probably would have found their music a bit sort of sparse and old fashioned when I was kind of getting into it and listening to Public Enemy and stuff like.

That. That's a good point. That's something I've found in listening back to. Some of these, yeah, definitely. I just want to be geeky at one point. So the the the first BDP album, Criminal Minded, it was probably the only proper BDP album because every single one after that is really kind of a KRS-one with a bit of deny on there as well. Yeah, but he he kind of kept that going, I think probably for the memory of Scotland more than anything. Yeah. Well, in terms of my my kind of relationship. You like some of the albums?

Don't you? But I do, I do. I mean, I was, I was never a massive like a huge, huge fan of his, but he was always there, like lurking in the sort of fringes. And I got into hip hop after a lot of the early stuff was released, you know, obviously criminal minded by any means necessary. Those those albums kind of passed me by, but I got into him in the Edutainment era. So the Edutainment was the first album that I was familiar with of his because I saw Love's Going to Get You, which is on our list of tracks.

We used to see the video of that on MTV. So that's the sort of era I I sort of introduced to him. And also remember at school there was this weird tape that did the rounds that had Black Man's in effect on it, which was also on Entertainment. I don't know where that came from. It wasn't any of us, but I never came across no. But what I what I did struggle with sort of when I first did start getting into his stuff or started listening to it was you often felt like you were being lectured to. And that wasn't always what I was looking for from hip hop.

You know, obviously you've got your public enemies and stuff like that. But I was kind of, I was more excited by N.W.A and people like that. And so it felt like a little bit of a school lesson sometimes, listening to his. Stuff he's quite like. I think the difference between him and say, Chuck D is that the the kind of political stuff that Chuck D, it wasn't as it wasn't quite as direct like KRS-one, was it? Like it is literally as if he's delivering A lecture with some tracks. Yeah, it really is.

And in in a good way, but he is very specifically kind of telling you about something. Whereas with like PE, it's more about their kind of it's the iconography of them and sort of just like the people they talk about. It was a better package was background. It's in the background like they're talking about Malcolm X and all that kind of stuff. Whereas care of one will literally tell you it's. Good point it. Will give you a lesson on. Exactly what? That's a really good point, Larry. But then so I kind of fell off him for a bit in the like the early 90s, but then he kind of re emerged in the mid 90s.

I loved his mid 90s stuff. You know, the D&D project like you mentioned a minute ago though in Channel Live and the KRS-one LPMC's that like they don't know. Like that's when I kind of really started to re awakened to Terrorist 1 and I started kind of liking him again. And now we I'm sorry, Steve, we went to see him. I should mention we did we. Didn't. Mention that, yeah, we went to see him live. I think when was it, a few years ago now. But yeah, we went to see him at Lemon Grove in in Exeter, which was pretty good.

The sound quality was pretty bloody terrible. Yeah. We couldn't make out a word he was saying, but the energy in the room was incredible. And he's, he's a really, really kind of even Amos, what's in his 50s now. Yeah. Yeah. Really energetic performer. Like, I was really impressed by the yeah. I remember thinking it was a tragedy because there was there was not many people there. They're like the Lemon Grove's not a huge venue. And I think no, crikey, he should be like he should get filling stadiums in my opinion, because I think he's just so.

He's a little bit like a legend, absolutely is a bit like the how the mighty have fallen a little bit. But you know, they've got to do what they've got to do today. Still making a living, you know, So yeah, no, it's great to see him do his thing live. All right, so that's our KRS-one thoughts, but I just before we continue, we have a bit of. Urgent news. Yeah, we have a bit of urgent news. So obviously 2026, first episode of 2026 and in 2025 everybody got their Spotify Wrapped. So I just thought I'd go over some of the stuff for the Hip Hop World Cup show just to see what happened.

The one I've put in bold on my notes here is that we were #1 show for eight fans. That's awesome. Eight people out there who that's great. Consider us to be your number one show. So if you're if you're one of those eight people and you're listening, thank you very much. Do do please make yourself known get in touch on social media. We. Could send you a signed like something. Yeah, we can send you a Yeah, we can send you a sign 3 and then yeah. Or something else. Well, I mean, there's loads of stuff I could go through.

It's 65% total audience increase. Obviously when it's percentages, you know, well, it belies what the real numbers are, but that's 35% increase in followers. And oh, interestingly, our top countries were obviously the UK #1 and #2 Sweden. Get on. So what? Do you think has contributed to our successes in the last year, Daniel? Well, your insightful comments, of course, and your sort of thoughts on hip hop in general. But I think it's just it's just a if we blow our own trumpet for a little bit, I think our show is really fun and engaging.

And I think people like the gamifying hip hop putting all this 90s hip hop up against each other. So I think you know. Production standards are really high as well. Well. Thank you very much. Yeah. Yeah, I think they are the like the best production standards in the game. Yeah, like a jet. Yeah. Yeah, it's great to great to hear. Thank you, chaps. Yeah, I know it's, I really enjoyed doing it. So I just want to say a massive thank you to everybody who's listened in 2025 and still listening this year.

It's it's really great to have you on board. So yeah, I just wanted to flag that. Also I should mention we got a little bit more. Urgent news. That we do have a Patreon now. I've set it up. I will be. I promise I will be putting things on there at some point throughout 2026. So yeah, they do. Please sign up. I'm going to put the link in the in the description. We've we'll have our post match analysis, show the breakdown on there as well, replay episodes with clips from our first series and things like that.

So please sign up and we'll we'll try and start getting some regular content on there. That's. Exciting stuff. I'm looking forward to the breakdown. Absolutely. Yeah. OK, so before we get this particular shooter underway, here's a quick run through of the rules, ladies. And gentlemen.

In our shootout solo episode, we pick 10 songs from a hip hop producer or rapper and draw them against each other to find an overall winner. Those 10 tracks include three personal picks from each host, while the 10th track is decided between us. The tracks can be from any era as long as the artist or producer came to prominence in the 1990s, but they can't be song we've already discussed in our Dream Team or playoff episodes. Essentially, those tracks have been cup tied. During the shootout, we pick the tracks at random to face each other, discuss them and decide which is the winner using the three man vote.

At the end, we'll rank the five winning tracks using our True Score ratings to find the overall champion so that the shootout commence.

As you know, our shootouts are monitored by VAR, which means every episode is free from clear and obvious errors. In the booth today is friend of the show John Barnes. Morning, John. Good morning. We have overdose, you good mate. You know the flavour. And back from a tax deductible trip to Doha. Sam Allardyce. How are you, Sam? I'm very good, thank you. I've been on holiday. I thought it was a business trip. All right, nevermind. Without further ado, let's crack on with the shootout where we have 10 tracks which are as follows.

We've got these are all BDP tracks, so I'll just run through those. Poetry S Bronx 9 millimetre goes bang. My philosophy. Why is that? Beef and Love's going to get you material love. Then we've got 2 KRS-one tracks which are out of here. Sorry, out of here. And MCS act like they don't know. And then track #10 is Madism by Channel Live. So a good kind of broad spectrum of tracks by KRS there. So let's get on with the first track, the first match. Sorry, Steve, give me a number between 1:00 and 10:00.

Lucky 9 please. Nine, that is MCS act like they don't know. And Larry, give me another number. For. For up against my philosophy, let's have a little listen to both of those. If you don't know me by now, I doubt you'll ever know me. I never won a Grammy. I won't wear the pony, but I'm not the only MC keeping it real. Where to grab the mic to smash wrap for girls? Go hell, check the timers around this 1995. Whenever I arrive for a second, a teacher will begin to see. Let us begin right where, why, or when?

We'll all be explaining like the structures to a game. See, I'm not insane. In fact, I'm kind of rational. So that's MCS act like they don't know which is produced by DJ Premier up against my philosophy. So let's start with my philosophy actually. Whose choice was that? That's yours, Steve. So tell us why you wanted that included on the list. So there I think there are there are two tracks that really like define Chaos, one for me and they're both pretty similar. So one's poetry and one's my my philosophy.

And I think this is quite like a a bit more of a kind of a, a mature track from from from kind of some of his more earlier stuff with better production and even better kind of flow. The thing that I absolutely love about this is just how many quotables there are. I do maybe sound a bit repetitive. There are some hip hop tracks that I just love putting on because I just know how many how many rhymes are coming up that I just can't wait for it to get there. And this is a this is a track that delivers 3 verses of just hip hop perfection.

And it it is quite long and it does, it does maybe, you know, maybe stays a bit too long. And it is maybe also this is making me think what you he said at the beginning. Yeah, being a bit too much lectury because this is this is definitely a lecture lecture from and maybe like a successor from from from my poetry, from poetry. Sorry. But yes, it's just it's just got I don't know, the horn on there is really nice as well. I don't know. Something about it. It's just something about the fact, yeah, I just love putting it on.

I just love, I love hearing him hearing all the kind of quote was on there, yeah. I think it's a really, really good point that you make about the every line being like a quotable. It's that there's so many lines in this you recognise having been sampled for massive other tracks like. Favourites like It's Not about Salary, It's All about Reality. Obviously that one just N.W.A and you've got Wick Wick whack in there, which is which is used. You heard that many times. How many embassies must get? Yeah.

It's just packed with him and you realise just how many artists have taken from from, you know, from his rhymes. And even and Even so, just one one more point I want to make on the on the kind of quotables. He also says in this one in in everyone's rhyme, they want to mention me. So even about that early stage, because what what years this haven't been down the year this is this is like early 90s, isn't it? My thoughts? No, this is late 80s. Yeah, 88. I know. It's 88, isn't it? Yeah, even even at this point everyone's wanting to mention him and we haven't even got to the the golden age yet, so.

Yeah, he's already a legend. Already a legend. Yeah. I mean, this one, I mean, I spent a lot of time listening to, like the earlier ones from Criminal Minded. This, this sounded a bit like an evolution in the sound. It sounded, especially when you compare it to poetry in South Wilmington. It sounded a bit more. The production sounded fuller. It sounded a bit beefier and just just better production all, all round. I think that's what that's what I would sort of stood out when I listened to it. But yeah, you've got tonnes of quotable lines and I think the the beats really, really quite cool.

I think it's a nicely produced, nice samples. Yeah, of those of those early ones we've got here on the list. I think this is probably my could be probably my favourite. One of the one of the definitely a successor to to poetry and it definitely steps up in in every in every in every respect. Yeah, Larry, what? What are your thoughts on this one? My notes kind of echo a combination of what both of you have said, really. I, I, I see it as a spiritual successor to poetry. And yeah, the production is a real step up from the first album.

Just the kind of the way it's, it's less, it's still sort of quite sparse, but not certainly not as much so as the as the kind of stuff that came before. Like the fact that it just uses more of a. It's got a proper kind of sample in there, but also mixed with a with a drum machine. Yeah, you can hear the break beat. Yeah, but it's it's kind of mixed really nicely and just with the way like his lyrics are like his, his vocals are recorded in process. It all just glues together really nice. It's just really pleasing to the ear, like the the drums just have got a real kind of role, like a nice role to them.

Yeah, they really do. Yeah. I find it sort of more aligned to the sort of hip hop that would start to come through later in the 90s. More bit nice is important, yeah. So yeah, I, I really like it. A lot of my notes on here kind of pertain to how I kind of came across KRS-one, which is all about sort of the compilations I thought was talking about already. One thing I didn't mention in there was the other thing I knew him for was having thrown P off PFPM Dawn off a stage sort of famous. I remember sort of reading about that, yeah.

Connection. Someone mentioned it on a podcast the other day, in fact. Right. Somebody was talking about PM Dawn. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I love PM Dawn. Yeah, I set a drift on memory. Bliss was great on 7 inch. I loved that. But yeah, KRS-one obviously didn't. All right, well, let's switch over to MCS act like they don't know. This is from 1995 off the KRS-one album produced by Primo, a big favourite of ours on the show here. This was my track. I would have to say it's probably my favourite KRS-one track of everything.

Surprised. Yeah, it's it's just the one that really said, yeah, I'm, I'm. I'm actually now back into KRS-one. I think the beat is incredible. This is one of my favourite Primo beats. It's it's, if you had to sum it up, play it to an alien or whatever you'd say this is, this is DJ Premier because it's got all the hallmarks. It's got these quirky, the sample's quirky. The beat is just programmed beautifully with that Primo swing. I it I never fails to amaze me. And the bell as well, which she's the bells.

So I love the bell. It it's yeah, it's great. And it's proper boom bap a real head nod. I I just I've always loved this one. Love the intro as well. He does acapella clap your hands everybody And I just his 1995 flow was also really good to me as well. He kind of it changed very slightly from his earlier stuff. He kind of it it developed this I this one sounds very similar to how he wraps on 1/2 pass it obviously, which is the same year. I agree. In my notes, he's like, he's like a master rhymer now.

Yeah, he's really, really perfected his his art. Absolutely. And he starts dabbling more in those kind of punch lines and the metaphors a bit more as well. Like especially on 1/2 pass it, he's talking about talking about his role in Who's the man and things like that. He's a bit more jokey I think in when he moves into the still, you know, he's got lots of hard hitting stuff, socially conscious stuff, but he does, he's more punchline based. Yeah, he's not trying to be so gangster and those early stuff.

He's pretending to be a gangster, but trying to be a preacher. Whereas, yeah, he's a bit more like all the other rappers here. Yeah, in my notes, we've got pretty much everything you've just said. Oh, great. The Primo Biles and the boom Bap and Master Rhymer. Like, yeah, I couldn't agree with what you said. Yeah, absolutely so. Yeah, absolutely so. But you is this you found this one? Like, not so much, and I can't really explain why. I just, it's kind of objectively really good for all the reasons you've kind of both said.

Like the beat is a lovely kind of crisp drums, nice piano sample, but it's just one of those tracks that for some reason just never really kind of got under my skin. And I don't think the lyrics are especially memorable like for KRS-one when that's usually the hallmark of the KRS-one song. There's just not too much about. I mean, I would disagree with that from my perspective because I like listened to it so much and memorised and heard it. But I imagine, yeah, if you weren't into it at the time, maybe.

Well, did you listen to it? Do you have it at the time or are you aware of it? At the time? No, no. So coming to it later, yeah, I can totally understand what you mean. But it's not about anything either. No. Which is quite weird. That's it. But yeah, like if someone said to me this is in my kind of top 3 premiere beats, I kind of it wouldn't be in mine, but I would, I would not kind of admonish them for. It I know I hear you. I absolutely hear you. OK, So those are the tracks. My philosophy versus MCS out like they don't know.

Should we vote then? Should we see who's going to win this one? Obviously I'm going to vote for MCS, act like they don't know, because that was my choice, Steve. Well, yeah, obviously I've got to go for my my philosophy. I think it's I think it's probably my my favourite KRS is it? Yeah, I think so. I think so. It's hard. I've got quite a few that I like, but that's it's definitely out there. Yeah. So it's. Yeah, it's like, I would say my philosophy isn't my favourite KRS-one track, but I think it is like the quintessential yeah track and it's scored higher for me.

So yeah, I'm going for my philosophy, yes. I I think it's just so much more part of the KRS-one Canon. Yeah, no, I totally. All those quotable wraps there is. It's so well. It is so well. Yeah, because once you move into it 95 and MCS that I don't know that's it's great, but it's not. Part of the golden hip hop track. Yeah, yeah. I totally get it. It's just my tastes. It kind of aligns more with them. I'm going we'll go over it. Actually, we've got some of the new guests that we've just want to see what his take on that result is.

Let's have a listen to Harry Redknapp. Absolute load of nonsense. What? He doesn't agree. He's obviously a bigger fan of. Harry Radnett acts like you don't know. That's shocking. He definitely does. All right. Well, that's a win for my philosophy. So it gets one of these.

Back of the net. So let's move on now to our second match. Steve, give me another number between 1:00 and 10:00. 3 please. 3 is 9 millimetre goes bang, Larry, 7 is Love's going to get you material love, so that's 9 millimetre goes bang versus Love's going to get you. Let's have a listen to both of those so. I had to buck him down with my 9 millimetre. He said I had this girl. I said no what to you stupid, But he tried to play me out and KRS-one knew it. He reached for his sister, but it was just a waste because my 9 millimetre was up against the stage.

He broke up in junior high with AB plus grade. At the end of the day, I don't hit the arcade. I walk from school to my mom's apartment. I've got to tell her suckers every day. Don't start it. That's where I'm at. If you're soft, you're lost. Just stay on course means to roll with force. So that's 9 millimetre goes bang versus I was going to get you, Larry, 9 millimetre goes bang is your choice and start us off. It was, yeah. Yeah. And it's a quintessential track, I think. That's really, I love it.

I just it's it's got one of those first lines that just hooks you in. I mean, you're a crack dealer by the name of Peter. Had to fuck him down with my nine of the metre. But once you've heard that, you just you need to know the rest of my how that story pans out right. And it is one of those kind of early ones. So it's it's from the first album, isn't it? Like the third track, I think yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's got that very basic stripped down sound, but the drums have got like a really nice texture to them.

The bass line's the same. And then when you put them together with the vocals, it's just it's all sort of very hypnotic sounding, I think with like the yeah, La La La La la bit in the back. So that's mostly what I've got to say about the, the music. One thing that I couldn't help but think about was the veracity of the story, which ended up taking on a little bit of a of a journey. So I've got a couple sort of facts for you. So it's kind of started question with me sort of thinking, has he just made this up?

Because he's kind of realised that Peter rhymes with millimetres. Thought that would be a that would be a good rhyme. I'll kind of I'll go with that unless it's a, a real story. It kind of got me thinking. I, you know, I'm no expert on this kind of thing and it's not really my place to to be saying, but I don't like Peter. It seems like a very white name to me. And it kind of got me wondering. I, I sort of, I was trying to Google like is Peter a common name among African Americans? It doesn't seem like it is.

But the one thing I found really interesting is that it's name. Name of the Greek origin. Do you know what Peter means? Boozy.

It means rock, Rock Peter. Peter Rock. Peter Rock. So his name is Rock Rock. But it also occurred to me when I was thinking of all this that I've made an assumption that the Peter he's referring to is black. Right, OK. Crack dealer. And as a result of that I've referred myself to an unconscious bias training programme. Racialist. Stop me being racist. Yeah, absolutely. Well, lovely. Thanks for that, Larry. That's great. I think that deserves a round of. Applause. That does deserve a round of applause, Yeah, and a laugh as well.

Yeah. Great. So it's a good point though, Larry, was it true? Did this have to actually happen to Keras one or was? It I mean, if it did really happen, did it really happen? If it did happen, did we just change a name to make it rhyme or? Yeah, names have been changed to technically innocent. I can add a bit of insight, I think, on Keras at one's credibility here, because I sometimes think he tries to be gangster and he and he isn't, but he had a pretty tough upbringing. Oh yeah, really? Yeah, I read.

I was. Reading about that group home, didn't he? Yeah, he got kicked out of home when he was like 16, got into a group home and then a social worker named Scott La Roque, which wasn't his real real name, befriended him. And then they they filmed BDP with with Dean Ice. And then, of course, Scott La Roque got killed a year after the criminal minder was was was released with with 9 millimetre. And you've probably already looked this up, but apparently D nice had an argument over some girls. So he he thought Scott the rocker would be a good person to to help him settle this argument.

So they they've got in their jeeps drove down to this this project. And anyway, it ended up with the the the Jeep getting shot at and that's how that's how Scott looked like basically. So so chaos would definitely, I think has experienced some some awful stuff in his life. So he probably he probably does know about what's going on there. But yeah. And he's I don't know. It's hard, isn't it, to mix being hard and gangster and tough, but and also preaching and being a teacher. Yeah, I think he mostly does does pull it off.

And certainly criminal minded in this album is mostly about yeah the 9 millimetres and the and the the feuds he has. I think, I mean, I'm kind of sure that if he were asked about it, he'd probably just say that he's kind of speaking about the experiences of people, you know, like, like him, people that he kind of knew a lot of respect like that. Aren't they just sort of? You go from criminal minded as an answer like entertainment and it definitely there's some there's there's a yeah, a journey I reckon he's been on.

Yeah. Oh, he's definitely like, he's like having read that stuff about him today because he, he, he talks about all of that in out of here. Doesn't mean that rapping in the shelter system and stuff. Story. Like, yeah, he's, it's a pretty tragic up upbringing and he's obviously got such a, he's obviously got such a strong mind to be able to kind of get through all of that and have being like one of the top MCS, like as a driving kind of force in it. That's what he's aspiring to, and he does it. He was, he was actively seeking out, like, learning and wisdom.

Yeah. And I was thinking it's a really, really, you know, great message for anybody, really. Well, absolutely. I think all that adversity also contributed to him having such a long career as well, and been sticking around for so long. Like he's the real deal. He's seen so much that he's one of done everything in the right way. And he's had such a long career and so many stories to tell, so much knowledge he's accumulated over the years. Yeah, he's really set himself up well. Definitely Cool. Well, so do you.

Well, what about the music, though, for this one? Steve? Are you? Are you is this. Do you like this one? I. Completely agree with with Larry. So so criminal minding was an album that I I came to when I when I got to university and spent my student loan on like on on, you know, loads of hip hop albums. I thought I've got to get into it into care. I sort of got to find more about BDP. So bought criminal minded. Absolutely loved it even though, and you you both know I kind of I quite like that old, those old school sounds.

I just, they just really. I like it. I like, I like it when it's done right. Yeah. And this is a like a good example of it I think. But the thumping bass, I really like this. Like you said, I didn't really think of it, but does create that kind of like hip hypnotic, hypnotic sound. And yeah. And I think that's why it really, really still works to this to this day. So yeah, a track that I, I really, really, I, I would have been close to choosing this myself, I think. Yeah. But there's there's a lot of lot of stuff I like criminal minded.

It's really interesting you say that because I, I hadn't really, I'd known of this track, but I hadn't actually properly listened to it. Like really. So I, so I kind of, this was me finding out a bit more about it and I like genuinely think it's an awful track. Right. Really. Yeah, to be honest with you, sounds like the sort of thing that me and you used to make on our little tape recorder when we were making rap songs. There's something about that bass sound. It sounds like it's been played on a Yammer Yamaha keyboard, yeah.

Now you mentioned it does sound more. It sounds a bit kind of like, and also I'm not like there's a kind of a faintly reggaeish field too as well, which I always Royal Royals meet whenever I hear it. So this is pretty much tailor made for me not to like it, but I get that it's from a legendary album and I know that the production standards back then very different and it was made at a time. So 1986. Yeah. So yeah, not for me, this one, but I understand why you chose it. And the storytelling is obviously really good, you know, and it is catchy and it's hooky, but I don't think I would have even liked this in 87 if I'd have heard it.

I just think it would have been a. Bit I think, I think for me it's the lyrics and the story that make it. Yeah, I know. I totally get it. So, yeah, not for me this one, but we move over to the other track, Love's Gonna Get you another sort of crime. One about crime or or sort of somebody who's turned to crime. Yeah, Yeah. Legendary track. Really great. I think the first single off the Edutainment album. This is your choice. This was my choice, actually. Yeah. There's no intent. No, it's Larry's choice.

Larry's choice. Sorry. There's another one. So yeah, Larry, talk, talk us while you while you wanted this one on there. Yeah. I mean, I think I said earlier that my philosophy is, is the quintessential KRS-one track. But this, this is probably like a close second to it. And to me, it's it's my favourite example of my favourite type of KRS-one track, which is a story. Yeah, yeah. Which? 9 million it goes bang is a is a kind of earlier kind of version of this. It's just he's just telling a compelling story over a simple but pleasing beat.

And it's just a great little kind of three act structure. Yeah, in the in the story really good. You know, decisions are made against a backdrop of like poverty and necessity. There are consequences in there, like lessons of them along the way. And then we're kind of left with a bit of an ambiguous conclusion where he says, you know, ask what's he supposed to do where he's got these cops. He's in front of these cops. He's either got to kill them or go to prison or get killed by them. He's, you know, I just, I just like that ending of it.

Like, you don't know sort of quite how it ends. And I, I just, I love like in particular the first verse, which is sort of all about him as a kid being like coming home and like his drug dealers in the kind of outside the block. And he's got a kind of, you know, negotiate that and his family are really poor. He's like he shares. He's got 2 pairs of trousers that he shares with his brother. No, no, no, he's got 1 1/2 pair of. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah. So 2 pairs between them. So yeah, with 1 1/2 pair of pants.

You ain't cool. There's some really clever, clever ways in which he outlines that change from poverty to start down a bit more like he says. But now there's steak with the beans and rice. It's really clever because he's already mentioned it's really good, really good storytelling. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's brilliant. It's Yeah, it hooks you in right from right from the beginning. I mean, I'm in junior high with AB plus grade. It's another one of those first lines. It's like, right, you've got me. I want to know what's what's next about this?

And that was. What he was so good at wasn't it? It was his Forte. And of course, it's got a legendary line and they've got myself a Uzi and my brother and I sampled on Doctor Dre on the Chronic. I put that as well. It's just a great storytelling song, just timeless. I think one of the best, let you say it's like one of the quintessential KRS storytelling ones, but probably one of the best in the hold of rap. Yeah. Like it's hard to think of of a better one and the intelligence of it. And it's the other thing is it's like gangster education.

It's like, listen to this if you're thinking of becoming a gangster, well. Yeah, and also just, you know, like we know that hip hop is like massively concerned with like a material last of items in terms of money. And he's kind of like this like, I don't know what this like pretty early stuff. And he's kind of talking about how like that isn't the path to kind of actual fulfilment and. Stuff like, you know, as an, as an MC in early days, like we were just saying he came fully formed. You know, he's saying this stuff.

It's 1990. You know, it's like. He's he was wise beyond his years. He really? Was and not many people talk about loving this way. So it's also like really, really clever. And of course it's got loads and those are quotables, but I really like the beat as well. And it's just. Simple. Yeah. I mean, I have to say if there's an area that where it kind of is let down slightly as the beat, it's quite pedestrian. I like. It I can see that, but it just serves it. Perfectly, I'm going to say it's a little bit pedestrian, but it does work really well for the subject matter.

And also the the chords are quite, yeah, they're quite sinister, quite eerie. And the little thing on the chorus, the actual Love's going to get you. Yeah, I don't know where that comes from, but it's very atmospheric and very it serves the beat really well. So there's a lovely, lovely track for me. Also, I must just mention the video as well. I don't know if you've ever watched it, but this, my introduction to it came with the video, which was on MTV large on MTV, largely shot on a black background with KRS in it and just sort of acting out what what's happening in the song.

For me it's always kind of intrinsically linked to the visuals as well, which is, which is sort of heightens it in my mind as. Well, I can't remember that one I'm going to have. To have a look, it's good. But but yeah, so I think we're all big fans of that one. So should we vote on on this? Yeah, we've got 9 millimetre goes bang versus Love's going to get you. I'm going to go for Love's going to get you. I'm going to vote first if that's all right, for those reasons. Same with me, it's just an absolute classic track all round and easy winner for me.

Yeah, exactly the same. Really. Yeah. It's my, it's my favourite of his tracks. It's the only 5 out of five. Incredible for ME3 nil win for Love's going to get you so we should get gets one of these. Back of the net. OK, before we move on, I do have a bit of a quiz for you both. Just a bit of fun, no cash prizes involved or anything. And we didn't know there was a quiz, so we haven't, no. Prep. You haven't prep. I just want to test how how your research into KRS-one went. So he wants to go far. I'll do 1 now and I'll do one later.

So he wants to go first. I don't mind. I'll go first. Yeah, you go first. OK, Here we go. It's time for a section we like to call. That's the real quiz, the real quiz, the real quiz, right? So your first question, Larry, what is the DJ name used by KRS-one son Chris Parker? What's his DJ name? Did that come up in any of your research? Did. Not come up in my research, do you? Want to have a go, Steve? Go on. Isn't it DJ Kenny Parker?

No, that's somebody else. Is that his brother? I think my brother. 'S name is Kenny. Kenny Parker, Yeah, no. KRS Sons. KRS-one son's name is Predator Prime. Predator. Prime. It's the name he goes by. Yeah. OK, question number two, name. The 1993 movie starring MTV Raps hosts Dr. Dre and Ed Lover, in which KRS plays a character called Rasheed. Who's the man? Correct. And you know. That from once you pass it, yeah, your career. Will be and we mentioned it earlier as well. Final question for you Larry.

Name the 1989 single by Stop the Violence movement spearheaded by KRS-one. Don't know. That's called self destruction. Self destruction. Any good? It's all right. I remember being played. It was it's a sort of similar ilk to we're all in the same gang. The West Coast version. It's all right. Check it out. Just before we just before we get back to it, can I just shout out my wife who when she asked what the topic was today and I said, well, it doesn't matter because you wouldn't have heard of him anyway.

But then I said it was KRS-one. She was very pleased with herself for saying that. It sounded like a number. Plate it. Does. She like she she will be at home laughing still. Now I reckon she. She was howling at herself for about half an hour. And she'll be laughing, Yeah, when she hears this again, when she listens back to it, which of course, she does. Nice. All right, we'll talk about more. That's the real quiz later on for you, Steve. Let's move on now with the shootout. Can you give me another a different number between 1:00 and 10:00?

#5 please. #5 that's why is that. And Larry? Have we had one yet? No, that's poetry. So why is that versus poetry? More fashion, But here's the. Question I'm asking why is it young black kids taught black? They're only taught how to read, write, and act. It's like teaching a dog to be a cat. You don't teach white kids to be black. Why is? That. It's a big idea for us to listen to the teacher and the lesson classes in session so you can stop guessing if this is a good or a written down memo to your.

Professional. So this is Steve versus Steve to come out the hat at the same time. Yeah, that's really irritating. Isn't it? So there's going to be some big decisions here for you to have to make. Well, what do you want to start? Possibly let's start with poetry because that's the this is the first track off of the first BDP album. So for me, this is like a such an important place in my my, my hip hop, hip hop history. Like I said, this is this now I picked up when I was at uni and then just just loved, loved it.

So we've already mentioned this and I put this in my notes. It's like the production on this album, particularly this track is pretty sparse, but I think it still retains like a bit of a funky flavour which I think is which is quite, they're quite tricky to do. A lot of that comes from the James Brown samples I would imagine as well. Possibly. There's a lot of James Brown all over that. Beat. I think the drum also manages to sound funky as well, which makes it catchy enough, but also allows kind of chaos to take kind of centre stage and a little aside with a beat here.

And Larry will will definitely agree agree with me here that obviously this was heavily sampled by MF Doom on on Doomsday. So it has like and now an extra place in my heart, a dual place in my heart and I. And I can't help thinking of both rappers and both albums when when this when this plays. And then yeah, that we it was. It's annoying really that that my philosophy came out first in this, in this podcast, because this is probably his first introduction to, to, to, to, to the, to the world. And, and it is his first opportunity to try to, to, to teach and to reach people with what he's, what he's trying to say.

So there there is only he kind of says there is only one KRS. So already like, I don't know, he really kind of understands that he is he is he's he's I know all rappers kind of brag about how good they are, but he he's he's kind of stating that in his in his introduction here. And it's just his flow on this album is pillar. So you've you've got some kind of like contemporaries of the time in terms of like you got paid in full that came out around about the same time and and bigger and deffer with LL Cool J. But he he he does kind of like match them.

And I don't know, there's sometimes where I think he exceeds them, sometimes think, Oh, he's the he's the best rapper of all time. And other times I'm, I'm not quite so sure. But on this track, I think he's he's he's flawless. His his flow is peerless on this track.

Yeah, it's just one that I have an emotional attachment to like you do, Danny. But also I think technically I like a lot about it as well. So that's why I love this track so much. Yeah, yeah, it's a. Good point. You're probably going to hate it. Well, no, I don't hate it. I mean, it's it's very much of it's time. It's that the production is very dated and sparse like we mentioned earlier on. So it doesn't automatically appeal to me and not as I said earlier, I didn't get into criminal minded at the time and never like later got into it either.

So a lot of these I did hear for the first time properly in research. Yeah. So as you can imagine, like, you know, I don't think it's incredible. But as an MC, I agree with everything you say. Steve, you know, this is a really great showcase. He's just in. He's got a real good command of of the lyrics and his flow. And he's just so authoritative, even at this early stage on his first album, First track of the first album. Particularly that time when the hip hop was was evolving in its style. Like the way that Rakim would have moved it forward.

Chaos One would have done in his style as well. He had something to say and he said it really well and I think that's what kind of made him blow up in those early albums. But you know, it's not massively my cup of tea, although I do. Again, like we said with my philosophy, there's so many sampled lines in it as well, like loads of bits I recognise that have been taken. So which is always an indication of how revered it is among producers. So yeah, not, not not massively for me. But Larry, what are your thoughts?

Do you? Do you like this one? Yeah, I haven't got much more to say about it. Just, you know, echoing what Steve said about, you know, classic drums and also the scratching as well that was that was used by MF Dome. It's good, but there's nothing that sort of massively hooks me in about the the lyrics on it, really unlike the other two tracks from this album that we're looking at today. It's funny how actually the the first 3 tracks on the album are all of the ones that we're talking. About from the album.

Definitely hold it like an emotional, sentimental connection. And like you said, it's a shame that we've already spoken about my philosophy, because I feel that that one is just a better version of this. Definitely the sequel to It's Also Thinking True, We Don't Talk About This Enough is that hip hop is poetry and he's like quite ease to kind of talk about that in this rap. He's the poet laureate of hip hop, you might say, as well as the president. But so let's move on to Part 2 of the Steve double bill.

This is why is that. This is from the ghetto music, the ghetto Music album. So talk us through why you wanted this one in here. I think probably I don't know what you 2 are going to think of it. It's I also kind of have a bit of a sentimental connection to this as well. It's just it's just one of those tracks like I don't necessarily like the rest of that album. There's not it's not like an album that I that I love in the same way that I love criminal minded. But but this track just and again, probably exemplifies why I like chaos one, because he's getting to be the teacher.

He's getting the lyrics make you think a bit more kind of deeper about things. He's definitely kind of thick in metaphors and passion for, for, for what he's rapping about. And, and when I listened to this the first time, this is this was a little bit mind blowing when he, when there's that explanation about Shem and like Jesus being black and Moses being black. And I thought for me at the time when I first started that that is quite like, it's quite a mind blowing thing. And so you don't again, you don't how many rap most rappers are rapping about, you know, all the usual stuff, the gangster stuff.

But he's he's brave enough to be, you know, trying to teach and to preach as well, which which which I thought was really good, which he also does in one of the tracks actually you've chosen, which will come up later, Danny. So. So yeah. And another one that's got not a really big sentimental connection with me. And yeah, just to catch you little number again. Do you EE those sentiments, Larry? Is this? One, yeah, I really like this. I think it's a musically, it's a great mix of samples just, yeah, really nice kind of bit of bit of music.

You know, KRS earns his title of teacher by kind of, you know, giving that alternative sort of Christian history. I, I, I, I haven't looked at it today, but I have looked at this kind of stuff before. And I, I think, I mean, I think most of this stuff is based on kind of the teachings of like Elijah Muhammad. I don't think that it's got a lot of kind of serious credibility, credibility to it. I kind of get, I sort of completely understand to the point of it and the sort of fact that we always think of like, you know, a blue eyed white Jesus and that.

Just. Obviously wouldn't have looked like that, but all of the kind of stuff about like the black Israelites and stuff. I don't, I don't, I might be, might be wrong, but I don't think there's, I think it's sort of disputed kind of stuff, but it's really interesting and it's. Eye opening. And what's more kind of, I think what's more salient is the fact that is when he's kind of talking about teaching white kids, teaching black kids to be white, like in their school system, not taking their cultural heritage into account.

And yeah, that's just obviously really kind of interesting, important kind of stuff. And this is what's so great about hip hop is that people like us on this side of the pond, living in our kind of rural backwater. That's kind of how, for me at least, that's how I learnt about all of this kind of stuff is through rap. Yeah, yeah. Which is great. Steve, you're a, you're an actual teacher. You kind of, you went through a lot to gain your qualifications like Violet, you know, legitimates. But not the nor roots do.

You do you sort of approve of him? Like using that self appointed title. Well, it's interesting so isn't it because he he knowledge reigns supreme over everyone Used to be his his moniker and then he changed it to nearly. RC he exchanged it so he was KRSOE. I think he was just, yeah, he used, he used to brag about that, didn't he? I'm sure he did. Maybe, just maybe I'm just making that up. But now I've I've got no problems with him if he's listening and he wants to come and do some teaching at myself.

Would you I mean? Would you let him teach your children? Yeah. Or would. You want to vet his. He'd have to be DBS checked. He'd have to be DBS checked. Yeah, I probably wouldn't let him teach RE or or maybe I'd probably let him teach history. Yeah, but RE yeah, wouldn't. I don't think it would. I don't think it would meet the standards for the like. It wouldn't meet the church being the standards. Curriculum criteria, Would it, I'd say. And you do poetry though A. Line. There's a particular line in this that I really like and it goes back to him, like his particular personality type and what he preaches, which is the stereotype must be lost that love, peace and knowledge is soft.

Yeah, yeah. That's what he's quite. He's quite open about those things and like just yeah, talking about love and all that sort of stuff. And he should be credited. That's where he's spread, especially President. He's respected. He's properly respected. Absolutely, yeah. Did you like it then? Well, like I, I totally agree with you about the sort of the teaching element of it. Like there's loads and loads of really great insight in the lyrics and what he's talking about. You know, he's he's really living up to his role as the teacher in this one.

But that doesn't always add up to something that particularly resonates with me. And what it doesn't help that it's being delivered over a kind of what I would describe as a fairly kind of pedestrian beat. It's not exactly. There's nothing that stands out about it for me. It's good. It's. I really like, I really like that piano. Yeah, Oh yeah, the loop's pretty good. I don't know where that comes from. It's quite familiar, but it's. I, I, I, I listened to it earlier. It's a pretty straight kind of take.

But I think typically KRS production is always average, maybe a little bit better than average. It's never brilliant. I don't think there's many tracks you can say that he's a brilliant producer, but he's definitely. Maybe they're given he wants his words to shine rather than the music. Often that's. What always kind of strikes me about his stuff is that it's there. It's there to serve his message absolutely. I think it's also hard, isn't it, to produce a hip hop track that's that's better than an average.

Just have to like, yeah, that is true. We're not DJ. He's not DJ Premier or or Doctor Dre that can just do do that regularly. Anyway, sorry, I interrupted. No, no, it's fine. No, but I don't really have much more to say really. It's it's just that this is one of those kind of a little bit forgettable tracks for me that just of of the ones we've got here just went under the radar. Not a lot to say, some great insight in the track itself and the lyrics, but yeah, it didn't stand out. So should we vote then?

We've got So what was it poetry versus? Why is that?

I gave both of them two. I gave both of them two. But that's, well, that's got to give yourself. What else? Harry Redknaut's What to say about that? Should we? Yeah, obviously, you know, it's a, it's a big disappointment. And I understand that, you know, 2 is quite a low score for for somebody so legendary. I just can't help it. They didn't really jump out. I can understand 2 for why is that? But I think I don't know. I'm just. Kind of. It's the it's that old school. Production. I just like that.

Yeah. I'm so sentimental. Well, I'm going for poetry because sentimentally it's it's a trap that that has a lot of meaning for me. Yeah, or what? I have the class to vote this. Well, maybe. Let's see what. I'm going for. Why is that? Because I I I like the music and I love that verse about the right, the gene genealogy of Shem. Shem. Yeah. Shem was a black man in Africa. If you repeat this fact, they can't laugh at you. Right. Yeah. OK. Well, I'm going to go for poetry in that case as well. I think it kind of, yeah, I preferred that one marginally.

So that is a win for poetry and it gets one of these. Back of the net. How are we doing? Who's who's in the lead so far, Steve? And you're, you're you're on the. Well, I I scores. This week. I, I don't want to kind of tempt fate really, but the three that I voted for and wanted to of of all one so far. This is a very unusual, uncomfortable podcast I'm having at the moment. So we've got my philosophy Love's going to get you in poetry. We've all gone through which are my my 3 faves. So that's Steve over there at the video printer.

Cool. Well, let's move on with the next one. If you can remember what numbers you haven't picked yet, give me another number between. I'll go for #8 sorry that the number. 8 is out of here and six is beef. So that's out of here versus beef. Here's what they sound like. So. We would go to the park when they were jamming, they hear rap. I used to listen to the cops broke it up. I always thought to myself, damn, why they fucked it up. But nevertheless, I was in love with the microphone and it stayed that way until I left home on the It's in New York now, I'm free.

The stress. The cow gets sicker. 21 different drugs of pumps into the cow in one big lump. So just before it dies, it cries in the slaughterhouse full of germs and flies off with the head. They pack it, drain it and card it and there it is in. Your there out of here and beef out of here was yours Larry from the Return of the Boom Bap album or the very best of KS one? Probably talk straight then. What's your what are your thoughts on this one? Just all about the beat for me on this one. It's it's a premier beat and it's kind of typical of his work at the time.

It's just so it's dusty and raw and it's just a one bar loop and sometimes those ones are annoying, but this is just happens to be one of those ones where I could listen to it like basically endlessly. It's just it just feels it's just so hip hop. It is. You can feel, you can hear those 12 bits and that's what I that's what I love about it. What the The word that comes to mind whenever I hear the beat is bouncy. It just bounces along. It's really like, yeah, but when it rolls, yeah, it's really good.

And Careless sounds great on it as well. Just another good example of his storytelling, going through his personal history, which we which we've touched. On Webby. Taking rappers out in the shelter system and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, brilliant. Love it. Yeah, yeah, it's a really a real head nod. A really head nod. Lovely. Yeah, the idea of him battling rappers in the shelter system, that's about as underground as it gets. It's. Learning. It's really, yeah, like this doesn't. Like an up and coming boxer, like going from like fighting in the box cars.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yes, yeah, there's it's absolutely head nodded the great subject matter, simple hook, proper hip hop. I don't think there's ever been more aptly titled LP name really. The the return of the Boom Bap is what this is. Exactly what had him it's. Actually a really good album. There's loads of great stuff on there, lots of DJ Premier productions actually, and this is early. Premier and KRS-one do go well together. They do. And like Premier has obviously had some interesting hookups over the years.

But yeah, I think he's always good with KRS-one. Yeah, they're made for each.

So that's out here. So the other track is Beef, which is my choice and this sort of. Stamps Hang on before we move on. Oh. If you've got more to. Yeah, just one more thing about it. I love the sample Boogie Davenport, and they ain't no joke. I just think that I don't know that just yeah, I don't know, just that's such a nice. I don't know. Premier is so. He's so clever. Together. Yeah. Like, that's just, that's his genius, isn't it? He's picking out these little phrases. He's an absolute beast, Yeah.

And this is this is kind of pre when he would cut up the thing on the on the chorus as well. But he really took that to the next level with some of the later stuff, didn't he? His his chorus hooks are incredible, Yeah. Danny, you've got some explaining to do with beef, because I know that this is. I know that you like this track. Yeah. And it is the most basic, kind of rudimentary, spare piece of music in his discography. Really. I don't. So I'm just interested to, I'm interested to hear you justify yourself.

Can I just jump on that bandwagon? Because on the, on the group chat, when, when I was going through the, the chats, I had to, I, I thought it got in by mistake. I thought I thought you'd either put it in there as a joke, because do you remember? I had to clarify. It's like, yeah, yeah, you have. Chosen Beef Of all the KRS-one tracks that you could have chosen, and I think you said something like, I love this track. Yeah, that's why we're here, isn't it? To put those tracks in that you probably wouldn't necessarily talk about otherwise.

And I just, as I said, I got into KRS through Edutainment, the Edutainment album and this one on there kind of always just stood out for me. It kind of fascinated me really. Does that be? I know it's really basic and it's just a loop, but it just where's it from? I just I haven't looked it up it. Is a sample I think, but I don't know. I didn't kind of bother looking into it. I think it was. Just so memorable, that sample, that little baseline and the drums. So that's what hooked me at the start, sort of that.

I thought you gonna say because of your love of food. Well, I honestly, honestly can't think of any other. Like I do like my food, and specifically I do like beef. So that doesn't make any sense. But so the the subject matter's really interesting as well, like he's talking about something that I don't think's ever been talked about since or before. It's. Incredible. It's not a surprise because he's a vegan activist. So he's a he's a like a staunch vegan. So that's this is obviously he's nothing.

You know, it's to be expected, but I just thought a track that describes the horrendous conditions that cows are in and how beef, you know, comes to market and all these different things. I thought it was fascinating subject matter. I was always just intrigued. Me married to this really weird, kind of odd off kilter beat. It's really unique. Isn't it? Yeah, it's really. And I just. It just always stood out in my it stuck in my head all these years and I had to put it here because it was just interesting, really.

He's. Really. Like is he the only hip hop vegan? I doubt vegetarian. I bet most stuff is vegan. Yeah, probably. Yeah. And interestingly, this track's reminiscent of that new World water track where he's talking about the water. Yeah, stuff. This is like the the cow equivalent. Yeah, definitely. So I don't know, I just always loved it. It's the one track off of vegetable that sticks in my mind. Apart from Love's gonna get you, obviously. Because because they're then that's only a good track really on album, but then it's.

Not gonna get you? Yeah, it's not. It's not a fantastic album. But yeah, but I but I do like this track as well. I like it for the for the reasons you like it, like quirky beats and the content. I think it's sort of the most bizarre subject matter I've ever addressed in rap. I kind of I got into, I sort of wondered why it was. And this come it comes back to this character, Elijah Muhammad, the Nation of Islam kind of founder or leader. And he basically he wrote a series of books called How to Eat to Live.

And this is obviously where it's all cripped from. And when I kind of mentioned earlier that he's not necessarily the kind of a verifiable source of knowledge, it's it's stuff like this. He did not believe that bread and cakes should be eaten directly from the oven and supported waiting a day or two before consuming them and for baking bread twice. So this is what's the science behind that? Exactly. And this is the man who's kind of, you know, revising the the Bible. So I don't know well. The other thing I don't understand is I thought beef was all right.

I think it's not for a vegan it's not, but like. Pork is the one that. Pork's the one, this one like. A lot of religions have a problem with. But it's the, it's the red meat in the in the link to the cardiovascular stuff that talks about having heart attacks and stuff. Yeah, I don't think this isn't, this isn't a religious I was led to be. No, no. He's basically saying you are what you eat, isn't it? That's basically what he's saying. So, So that's where you like. So. KFC so much. Exactly. I had one last night.

Beautiful. So yeah, a great. So Gemma, just something that really stuck with me. So that's why it's here. But it's time to vote then in that case, out of here against beef. Steve, let's start with you. I think it's pretty. It's pretty obvious it's the the best head nodder that we've got on the on the on the podcast today. It's out of here. Good lad, Larry. I would have liked to have given Beef a vote, but it's got to be out of here. It's just clearly the better track I think. Yeah, well, I'm going to.

I mean, I gave them both 3, but I am going to stick with my guns for the track. I chose Beef 21 defeat for a meaty meaty battle there between those two carers tracks OK. We'll leave the beef there though, yeah? Absolutely. So moving on to our final match up. So that is South Bronx, the legendary track South Bronx against Madism 10. Many people tell me this star is terrific. I've got a special clip for what I think Larry thinks of this one. OK. And I'll just say it's fine. So let's see if that. Comes true so much yeah.

Let's see if that comes true. But so Steve, talk us through this match up. Then we've got South Bronx, which is one of the most legendary discs or beef tracks, ironically. Yeah, nice little. Of all time, and I imagine you're a big fan of this. Nice stuff. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's definitely one of those, you know, Chaos one has his like temple of hip hop, doesn't he? And this would definitely be one of the the hymns that have constantly played because it's it's such a iconic track. And and and and then and in rap we get a lot of this kind of like this beef, don't we?

And a lot of lot of braggadocious stuff. But there was there was a really good feud going on at the at the time, you know, trying to work out, yeah, where where where was hip hop founded? And there's another track on here this CNMC sound called the Bridge as well, which is also also really good on. So this is South Bronx from from criminal from the criminal. So yeah, it's just great that the brag, the braggadocious, it gives you also kind of like going back and listening to like later on, it gives you a little insight into the history of hip hop as well, kind of like what was going going on at the time and the kind of feuds.

So yeah, it's it's it's a really iconic beat, really iconic rap and should be held I think in really, really high, high esteem by by the like the hip hop community. Yeah, I've got exactly those words written here on my my notes that one of the most iconic beats of all time. Like the minute you hear it, you know what it is. And it's that horn stab. I think it makes it so instantly recognisable. James Brown. And they pitch it up and down within the track, you know, and. They do the weird silly thing there at the end though, which I don't do.

Yeah, yeah. I like, I quite like that personally. Yeah, I like it. I like it when they pitched it down so to a different note and yeah, a midway through one of the verses. Yeah. Do you don't like that, Steve? What they did messing about with that horn? I just think it's just at the end, it just still gets a bit too daft. So yeah, it just ruins the ending. I probably skip it when it gets that bit right, right at the end. But but everything else about it is is really, really catchy. And I guess like also like that shouty chorus.

I don't know. This is probably one of the most early examples of the the shouty. Chorus, the shouty chorus. But also it's with the beat switches as well, doesn't it? It livens up a little bit and they they add a few more elements in there which actually works quite well for the chorus, but I just think that beat is just instantly recognisable. I think it's worth like 3 alone just for the the sound of it It's. Sparse Jlo sound of this as well. Yeah, somebody, Yeah, I think so. Anyway, Yeah, it's an iconic, just instantly recognisable beat.

And yeah, it's very sparse, quite under under produced, especially in the verses. But but yeah, a slight hip hop history. It's a, it's a good example of, you know, as we've kind of said during this episode, like those kind of sparse beats aren't always kind of for us, but I think it's one of the best examples of it. And that kind of style works best when you've got somebody as good as KRS rapping on it because it's just nothing to distract from his from what he's kind of saying. And yeah, the history of it is great.

It's apparently kind of like the this is like the second, like beef, like in rap, like the first one was like the Roxanne, right? Yeah, kind of walls and like the bridge walls about the second one. And for that and for disc tracks to become such a big part. Of hip hop called integral part yeah it's. Yeah. It's a really kind of formative thing. And apparently what makes that sort of interesting part of that is that it was in response, obviously, to the bridge. And this song was first premiered at a concert where Mt Shan had just performed.

That song. Yeah, so that. Would have been That would have been amazing. Sing like in kind of in person. It's brilliant, yeah. So without further ado, let's move over to madism. Larry, what do you think of that? And I'll just say it's fine. Yeah, that's basically it. I've got in fact another this. Is your pick. Was it? It was my pick. Yeah, I'm ready for it. But go. On I just I. My notes just say See above, and that's in relation to MC's act like they don't know. Like it's objectively really good I but I it just doesn't really.

It's from an era where you maybe weren't in tune. It was kind of, it was quite an obscure album at the time. I think the Channel Live 1 I did. I did have like a best of. Yeah, what best of channel? Of madism that you was it was it the track called What's the what's the album called? Station identification. So you had you had given me like if your versions of it was about the six best tracks and whatever and I it just never kind of got its claws into me at all. But objectively, like the beat at least is a really nice beat.

Like, listening to it just now, it's like, Oh yeah, actually I might have misjudged this one. It's quite a nice hard beat actually. It's probably one of the harder beats that KRS has produced and there's like kind of that hard bass and and they go out at the rapping quite hard as well. They do, yeah. And it's kind of got a kind of a dark, quite eerie sample going all the way through. It's a bit repetitive, but it it it kind of sets the mood nicely for that. This so this is produced by KRS. So this is produced by KRS-one, Yeah.

And he features on it as well. Yeah. And this. Sort of like his posse like channel live debate. Yeah, they they, he took them under his wing and he produced them and yeah, they were kind of his people. And this track was massive at the time. This was like one of those mixtape kind of tracks. It was talked about a lot in the Source and all that. So it was, it kind of didn't. This is their best known track, Madison. This is their big song and the reason I bought the album as well in the 1st place was for this.

This song? Yeah, this came out before the album. Yeah, definitely. And I think they, I think channelised themselves as we heard in that clip. The guy asked them which one it was, but hit the very distinct voice quite, almost like grave degree type voice. And I thought they were quite underrated rappers personally. I thought they were pretty good, but they didn't. Nobody talks about them anymore. There's a reason, you might say. For good reason. Well, that's bang out of order. But, you know, I think they were better than they maybe, you know, should have been, should have been a bit better known.

But there you go. There was one good line in that I love. Like Lionel Richie, your whole style is bitchy, which I like. But yeah, no, it's just this. This is just one of those tracks that I always loved. We'd put it on compilations and I can't really say much more about it. And I just really like it. You've had some strange KRS choices today, Beef and madisms, but. Well, maybe you can talk about this later and I'll breakdown episode, but some of this, what would you have put on there? You can tell us later on the next.

But yeah, yeah, I mean, as I said, but this kind of is born from the fact that I didn't get into KRS, you know, in the early stuff. Anyway, let's vote on that one then. We've got, well, he's definitely a vote for Madison for me and South Bronx. I would definitely go for South. Bronx. Yeah, South Bronx, 5%. All right, fair enough. That's a 21 win for South Bronx and he gets this. Back of the net. Did you say I picked the winner in every single? Range. Well, this was your. Unprecedented it. Probably was, but this was your topic.

It was my topic as well, so I'm really, I'm really pleased. You did months of research into it, Years, if anything. Years of research crisis. Yeah. Your whole life's been leading to this. Yeah, All right, what we're going to do now is go away and look at the scores, the true scores for each of those tracks, add them up, and then we'll work out what's the overall winner is. But before we do that, Steve, you've got your quiz questions. Yeah, so here we go for Part 2 of That's the Real Quiz. Real quiz, Real quiz.

OK, question one, name the song an artist the KRS-one was dissing on South Bronx.

I just said it. MC Shang. Yeah, and the song the. Bridge. Correct. OK Question 2. With whom did KRS collaborate on his 2007 album Hip Hop Lives? Oh geez, I should know this just like this.

Your time. Give me a clue. Give me a. Clue Legendary hip hop producer. Legendary hip hop producer. Molly Moe. Correct, Larry. Good. Well done. Question three. Final question. What was the name of the hero in the 32 page comic book Break the Chain that KRS created with illustrator Kyle Baker in 1994? Scott the Rock. If I don't know, it's Big Joe Crash, that's Joe Crash. That's that's. Did you read the whole of that to to just get that fact? Well, I did read it in the research, but I do remember it because they used to play the video for it on MTV when it came out and it was like a comic animated video, comic book character.

They are hard questions. They were. I think so, yeah. They definitely were, and I can't even remember how many you got right and how many you got right. One each. One each. SO I think we've learned that hip hop is the winner. I think hip hop is a real winner. All right, cool, right. We're going to go away and top up the scores. We'll be back after this short break.

This is Michael Jackson, and you're listening to Hip Hop World Cup, the world's baddest rap podcast.

OK, we're back. We're going to go over now to Steve at the Vidi printer with all his machinery. He's calculated all the data, he's crunched all the numbers and he's got the results. It's going to just say it's been such a pleasure doing KRS-one, so thank you both for it, for indulging me in one of my, my favourite rappers pleasure. I think we've done him justice. So I think the the the final rankings are fairly predictable. So in 5th place on 10 points was poetry and then enjoying 3rd place on 11 points was out of Here and South Bronx.

Oh wow. Yeah, SS Bronx is done well though, I reckon. Not done well. And then in second place was my philosophy, which means. 2nd place the. Winner and 13 points. I think probably deserves to win because it's it is a classic. Is Love's going to get you? Oh wow. Yeah, that's kind of happy with that. I think that that was my favourite. That's my favourite track of yours. I think that's a worthy. Yeah. Yeah, I, I, I'll go along with that. I think that's a pretty decent winner. Yeah, that's a good way of, you know, exemplifies, doesn't it, him in so many different ways.

So yeah, good. The storyteller, the teacher, the philosopher. Yeah, yeah, all all in one track, right. OK, well, yeah. So Love's going to get you. Gets this.

OK, so we've established scientifically that Love's going to get you as the best KOS one song. Do you agree or disagree with our winner? Please let us know what you think on X Instagram threads and blue sky. Just search at hip bot World Cup. Give us a follow and let let us know you're listening. Also subscribe and leave us nice five star reviews on Spotify, Apple or your podcast platform of choice. And also don't forget the Patreon. Do sign up on there. That's it. We're out of here. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you for our next shootout.

Peace. Good looking boy and.

I'll just say it's fine.