SHOOTOUT 6: KRS-One

This is Greg Wallace, and you're listening to Hip Hop World Cup,

the world's tastiest podcast. Hello dear listener and welcome

to Hip Hop World Cup shoot out, the podcast that pits golden age

rappers and producers against each other to find the ultimate

champions. I'm your host, Danny Phillips,

and as usual, I'm joined by the man who thought Terminator X was

a pest control company, Steve Hitchcock.

And that's. True, actually.

Yeah, he should. If he isn't doing it already, he

should be. And the man who thought the

jizzer was slang for a male porn star, James Luskin.

How are you both? Yeah, good.

Thanks. It's been a little while, isn't

it? We haven't done one of these for

a bit. So there's we've had a lot to

catch up on and so it's nice to be back.

Talking about hip hop, we're coming to you live from the

South Bronx, where we're presiding over a solo shootout

about the music of the Blastmaster KRS-one.

He's a teacher, philosopher and hip hop legend, and we're going

to discuss ten of his iconic tracks to find out which one

reigns supreme over nearly everyone.

So I did there, Steve. Yeah, Like that.

I thought you'd like that, Steve.

This was your choice of topic. I'm a big fan of his, I know.

So tell us why you wanted to do it and why you love KRS-one so

much. Yeah, I have been really excited

about this. So I'm, I'm, I'm hoping that at

least one of you shares a little bit of my enthusiasm.

I'm looking at Larry here with a bit of scepticism.

So, yeah, so I thought like, let's just break this down for

those that that don't know, or if you haven't heard of KRS-one,

then you're probably living in a hip hop cave because he is an

absolute legend. And if you listen to hip hop,

you'd have heard probably nearly every rapper mention him.

He gets he gets shout out I think from everything because of

the respect they have for him and if they don't mention him he

will get quoted or sampled. He is very, very heavily.

He's like the Godfather, one of the godfathers.

I go further that I think if there was a president of Hip

Hop, he would be the president because of the respect that he

has the longevity. So we're talking about someone

who who arrived on the scene with with Boogie Down

Productions BDP in in 1986, which is just that just the

point where hip hop was starting to really kind of like flourish

in the kind of mid 80s. And then his his DJ Scott the

rock got got got murdered the year after his his debut album

was released. But then since then he's been

releasing. I can't even remember how many

albums he he's he's released. But also pretty underrated

producer as well. So he does do he does do a lot

of production on on a lot of his his albums.

Absolutely. As well, And in fact, we're

going to be touching on one of those in our list of tracks.

Definitely. And then just to kind of like

waxwork a little bit more about this, I think he he set a really

high bar for hip hop in the end of the day in a couple of ways.

So first is like lyrically he's he's very, very skilful. 2nd,

just the way that he kind of sounds and a lot of his

incredible voice tracks. Yeah, but he's not just his

voice, but I think also the production, like a lot of his

like if he's the president of hip hop, there's there's there's

some anthems I think from the early days of hip hop that that

everybody will know about. And 3rd, as you alluded to in

your introduction, he's a teacher.

He kind of combines, he's got this weird combination of

combining a bit of like being a bit of a gangster with

philosophy, which I think which make for some kind of really

interesting raps. So, yeah, so I think if you

don't know him, if you've never listened to him, then you you're

missing out on a on on the president of hip hop.

Absolutely. What great summary that was the

thank you for that, Larry. What can I can?

I can I have a round of. Applause.

Oh yeah, sure. Let me, let me just.

I don't. Want to get like the opposite?

Yeah, absolutely. That's a shame.

You have to ask for it yourself. But yeah, Larry, talk us through

your relationship with KOS One and his music.

I, I came to him like pretty late.

I, I always kind of knew of him because he's that kind of, you

know, sort of big. Figure in hip hop so respected.

But other than him being having a verse on one to pass it, yeah,

I don't think I've really heard much of his stuff.

I've never already had any KRS-one or BDP stuff like back

in the day that I taped off off of you or whatever.

Yeah. Yeah.

So my kind of proper introduction to him was in 2000

when a compilation of his stuff was released called

Retrospective. It's basically the best of KRS.

Ones. Would you say that's your

favourite? And, and that is literally my

favourite KRS-one. That was the best of KRS-one

because it's just like, it's just a pretty flawless list of,

of songs like spread between BDP and, and his solo work.

And yeah, I, I have gone back and I've also got like a best of

BDP, like off off the back of that.

And I have investigated all of their kind of albums

individually, but there are no kind of whole albums that are in

my proper kind of rotate. He is like a singles and a best

of kind of artist for me. And I always kind of, I always

kind of think of him as like the not the mirror image, but a sort

of he's, he's like a Chuck D. Yes, like him and Chuck D.

Strike me as being a very similar, yeah.

They're in that same sort. Of they're cut from the same

cloth, yeah, they're just really.

Really strong voices and strong. Voices, they're socially

conscious, socially conscious, they're all about knowledge and

knowledge is power and all that kind of stuff.

Yeah, really influential. But I, I, I expect kind of back

in the back in the sort of early days of hip hop or in our early

days of it, I probably would have found their music a bit

sort of sparse and old fashioned when I was kind of getting into

it and listening to Public Enemy and stuff like.

That. That's a good point.

That's something I've found in listening back to.

Some of these, yeah, definitely. I just want to be geeky at one

point. So the the the first BDP album,

Criminal Minded, it was probably the only proper BDP album

because every single one after that is really kind of a KRS-one

with a bit of deny on there as well.

Yeah, but he he kind of kept that going, I think probably for

the memory of Scotland more than anything.

Yeah. Well, in terms of my my kind of

relationship. You like some of the albums?

Don't you? But I do, I do.

I mean, I was, I was never a massive like a huge, huge fan of

his, but he was always there, like lurking in the sort of

fringes. And I got into hip hop after a

lot of the early stuff was released, you know, obviously

criminal minded by any means necessary.

Those those albums kind of passed me by, but I got into him

in the Edutainment era. So the Edutainment was the first

album that I was familiar with of his because I saw Love's

Going to Get You, which is on our list of tracks.

We used to see the video of that on MTV.

So that's the sort of era I I sort of introduced to him.

And also remember at school there was this weird tape that

did the rounds that had Black Man's in effect on it, which was

also on Entertainment. I don't know where that came

from. It wasn't any of us, but I never

came across no. But what I what I did struggle

with sort of when I first did start getting into his stuff or

started listening to it was you often felt like you were being

lectured to. And that wasn't always what I

was looking for from hip hop. You know, obviously you've got

your public enemies and stuff like that.

But I was kind of, I was more excited by N.W.A and people like

that. And so it felt like a little bit

of a school lesson sometimes, listening to his.

Stuff he's quite like. I think the difference between

him and say, Chuck D is that the the kind of political stuff that

Chuck D, it wasn't as it wasn't quite as direct like KRS-one,

was it? Like it is literally as if he's

delivering A lecture with some tracks.

Yeah, it really is. And in in a good way, but he is

very specifically kind of telling you about something.

Whereas with like PE, it's more about their kind of it's the

iconography of them and sort of just like the people they talk

about. It was a better package was

background. It's in the background like

they're talking about Malcolm X and all that kind of stuff.

Whereas care of one will literally tell you it's.

Good point it. Will give you a lesson on.

Exactly what? That's a really good point,

Larry. But then so I kind of fell off

him for a bit in the like the early 90s, but then he kind of

re emerged in the mid 90s. I loved his mid 90s stuff.

You know, the D&D project like you mentioned a minute ago

though in Channel Live and the KRS-one LPMC's that like they

don't know. Like that's when I kind of

really started to re awakened to Terrorist 1 and I started kind

of liking him again. And now we I'm sorry, Steve, we

went to see him. I should mention we did we.

Didn't. Mention that, yeah, we went to

see him live. I think when was it, a few years

ago now. But yeah, we went to see him at

Lemon Grove in in Exeter, which was pretty good.

The sound quality was pretty bloody terrible.

Yeah. We couldn't make out a word he

was saying, but the energy in the room was incredible.

And he's, he's a really, really kind of even Amos, what's in his

50s now. Yeah.

Yeah. Really energetic performer.

Like, I was really impressed by the yeah.

I remember thinking it was a tragedy because there was there

was not many people there. They're like the Lemon Grove's

not a huge venue. And I think no, crikey, he

should be like he should get filling stadiums in my opinion,

because I think he's just so. He's a little bit like a legend,

absolutely is a bit like the how the mighty have fallen a little

bit. But you know, they've got to do

what they've got to do today. Still making a living, you know,

So yeah, no, it's great to see him do his thing live.

All right, so that's our KRS-one thoughts, but I just before we

continue, we have a bit of. Urgent news.

Yeah, we have a bit of urgent news.

So obviously 2026, first episode of 2026 and in 2025 everybody

got their Spotify Wrapped. So I just thought I'd go over

some of the stuff for the Hip Hop World Cup show just to see

what happened. The one I've put in bold on my

notes here is that we were #1 show for eight fans.

That's awesome. Eight people out there who

that's great. Consider us to be your number

one show. So if you're if you're one of

those eight people and you're listening, thank you very much.

Do do please make yourself known get in touch on social media.

We. Could send you a signed like

something. Yeah, we can send you a Yeah, we

can send you a sign 3 and then yeah.

Or something else. Well, I mean, there's loads of

stuff I could go through. It's 65% total audience

increase. Obviously when it's percentages,

you know, well, it belies what the real numbers are, but that's

35% increase in followers. And oh, interestingly, our top

countries were obviously the UK #1 and #2 Sweden.

Get on. So what?

Do you think has contributed to our successes in the last year,

Daniel? Well, your insightful comments,

of course, and your sort of thoughts on hip hop in general.

But I think it's just it's just a if we blow our own trumpet for

a little bit, I think our show is really fun and engaging.

And I think people like the gamifying hip hop putting all

this 90s hip hop up against each other.

So I think you know. Production standards are really

high as well. Well.

Thank you very much. Yeah.

Yeah, I think they are the like the best production standards in

the game. Yeah, like a jet.

Yeah. Yeah, it's great to great to

hear. Thank you, chaps.

Yeah, I know it's, I really enjoyed doing it.

So I just want to say a massive thank you to everybody who's

listened in 2025 and still listening this year.

It's it's really great to have you on board.

So yeah, I just wanted to flag that.

Also I should mention we got a little bit more.

Urgent news. That we do have a Patreon now.

I've set it up. I will be.

I promise I will be putting things on there at some point

throughout 2026. So yeah, they do.

Please sign up. I'm going to put the link in the

in the description. We've we'll have our post match

analysis, show the breakdown on there as well, replay episodes

with clips from our first series and things like that.

So please sign up and we'll we'll try and start getting some

regular content on there. That's.

Exciting stuff. I'm looking forward to the

breakdown. Absolutely.

Yeah. OK, so before we get this

particular shooter underway, here's a quick run through of

the rules, ladies. And gentlemen.

In our shootout solo episode, we pick 10 songs from a hip hop

producer or rapper and draw them against each other to find an

overall winner. Those 10 tracks include three

personal picks from each host, while the 10th track is decided

between us. The tracks can be from any era

as long as the artist or producer came to prominence in

the 1990s, but they can't be song we've already discussed in

our Dream Team or playoff episodes.

Essentially, those tracks have been cup tied.

During the shootout, we pick the tracks at random to face each

other, discuss them and decide which is the winner using the

three man vote. At the end, we'll rank the five

winning tracks using our True Score ratings to find the

overall champion so that the shootout commence.

As you know, our shootouts are monitored by VAR, which means

every episode is free from clear and obvious errors.

In the booth today is friend of the show John Barnes.

Morning, John. Good morning.

We have overdose, you good mate. You know the flavour.

And back from a tax deductible trip to Doha.

Sam Allardyce. How are you, Sam?

I'm very good, thank you. I've been on holiday.

I thought it was a business trip.

All right, nevermind. Without further ado, let's crack

on with the shootout where we have 10 tracks which are as

follows. We've got these are all BDP

tracks, so I'll just run through those.

Poetry S Bronx 9 millimetre goes bang.

My philosophy. Why is that?

Beef and Love's going to get you material love.

Then we've got 2 KRS-one tracks which are out of here.

Sorry, out of here. And MCS act like they don't

know. And then track #10 is Madism by

Channel Live. So a good kind of broad spectrum

of tracks by KRS there. So let's get on with the first

track, the first match. Sorry, Steve, give me a number

between 1:00 and 10:00. Lucky 9 please.

Nine, that is MCS act like they don't know.

And Larry, give me another number.

For. For up against my philosophy,

let's have a little listen to both of those.

If you don't know me by now, I doubt you'll ever know me.

I never won a Grammy. I won't wear the pony, but I'm

not the only MC keeping it real. Where to grab the mic to smash

wrap for girls? Go hell, check the timers around

this 1995. Whenever I arrive for a second,

a teacher will begin to see. Let us begin right where, why,

or when? We'll all be explaining like the

structures to a game. See, I'm not insane.

In fact, I'm kind of rational. So that's MCS act like they

don't know which is produced by DJ Premier up against my

philosophy. So let's start with my

philosophy actually. Whose choice was that?

That's yours, Steve. So tell us why you wanted that

included on the list. So there I think there are there

are two tracks that really like define Chaos, one for me and

they're both pretty similar. So one's poetry and one's my my

philosophy. And I think this is quite like a

a bit more of a kind of a, a mature track from from from kind

of some of his more earlier stuff with better production and

even better kind of flow. The thing that I absolutely love

about this is just how many quotables there are.

I do maybe sound a bit repetitive.

There are some hip hop tracks that I just love putting on

because I just know how many how many rhymes are coming up that I

just can't wait for it to get there.

And this is a this is a track that delivers 3 verses of just

hip hop perfection. And it it is quite long and it

does, it does maybe, you know, maybe stays a bit too long.

And it is maybe also this is making me think what you he said

at the beginning. Yeah, being a bit too much

lectury because this is this is definitely a lecture lecture

from and maybe like a successor from from from my poetry, from

poetry. Sorry.

But yes, it's just it's just got I don't know, the horn on there

is really nice as well. I don't know.

Something about it. It's just something about the

fact, yeah, I just love putting it on.

I just love, I love hearing him hearing all the kind of quote

was on there, yeah. I think it's a really, really

good point that you make about the every line being like a

quotable. It's that there's so many lines

in this you recognise having been sampled for massive other

tracks like. Favourites like It's Not about

Salary, It's All about Reality. Obviously that one just N.W.A

and you've got Wick Wick whack in there, which is which is

used. You heard that many times.

How many embassies must get? Yeah.

It's just packed with him and you realise just how many

artists have taken from from, you know, from his rhymes.

And even and Even so, just one one more point I want to make on

the on the kind of quotables. He also says in this one in in

everyone's rhyme, they want to mention me.

So even about that early stage, because what what years this

haven't been down the year this is this is like early 90s, isn't

it? My thoughts?

No, this is late 80s. Yeah, 88.

I know. It's 88, isn't it?

Yeah, even even at this point everyone's wanting to mention

him and we haven't even got to the the golden age yet, so.

Yeah, he's already a legend. Already a legend.

Yeah. I mean, this one, I mean, I

spent a lot of time listening to, like the earlier ones from

Criminal Minded. This, this sounded a bit like an

evolution in the sound. It sounded, especially when you

compare it to poetry in South Wilmington.

It sounded a bit more. The production sounded fuller.

It sounded a bit beefier and just just better production all,

all round. I think that's what that's what

I would sort of stood out when I listened to it.

But yeah, you've got tonnes of quotable lines and I think the

the beats really, really quite cool.

I think it's a nicely produced, nice samples.

Yeah, of those of those early ones we've got here on the list.

I think this is probably my could be probably my favourite.

One of the one of the definitely a successor to to poetry and it

definitely steps up in in every in every in every respect.

Yeah, Larry, what? What are your thoughts on this

one? My notes kind of echo a

combination of what both of you have said, really.

I, I, I see it as a spiritual successor to poetry.

And yeah, the production is a real step up from the first

album. Just the kind of the way it's,

it's less, it's still sort of quite sparse, but not certainly

not as much so as the as the kind of stuff that came before.

Like the fact that it just uses more of a.

It's got a proper kind of sample in there, but also mixed with a

with a drum machine. Yeah, you can hear the break

beat. Yeah, but it's it's kind of

mixed really nicely and just with the way like his lyrics are

like his, his vocals are recorded in process.

It all just glues together really nice.

It's just really pleasing to the ear, like the the drums just

have got a real kind of role, like a nice role to them.

Yeah, they really do. Yeah.

I find it sort of more aligned to the sort of hip hop that

would start to come through later in the 90s.

More bit nice is important, yeah.

So yeah, I, I really like it. A lot of my notes on here kind

of pertain to how I kind of came across KRS-one, which is all

about sort of the compilations I thought was talking about

already. One thing I didn't mention in

there was the other thing I knew him for was having thrown P off

PFPM Dawn off a stage sort of famous.

I remember sort of reading about that, yeah.

Connection. Someone mentioned it on a

podcast the other day, in fact. Right.

Somebody was talking about PM Dawn.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I love PM Dawn.

Yeah, I set a drift on memory. Bliss was great on 7 inch.

I loved that. But yeah, KRS-one obviously

didn't. All right, well, let's switch

over to MCS act like they don't know.

This is from 1995 off the KRS-one album produced by Primo,

a big favourite of ours on the show here.

This was my track. I would have to say it's

probably my favourite KRS-one track of everything.

Surprised. Yeah, it's it's just the one

that really said, yeah, I'm, I'm.

I'm actually now back into KRS-one.

I think the beat is incredible. This is one of my favourite

Primo beats. It's it's, if you had to sum it

up, play it to an alien or whatever you'd say this is, this

is DJ Premier because it's got all the hallmarks.

It's got these quirky, the sample's quirky.

The beat is just programmed beautifully with that Primo

swing. I it I never fails to amaze me.

And the bell as well, which she's the bells.

So I love the bell. It it's yeah, it's great.

And it's proper boom bap a real head nod.

I I just I've always loved this one.

Love the intro as well. He does acapella clap your hands

everybody And I just his 1995 flow was also really good to me

as well. He kind of it changed very

slightly from his earlier stuff. He kind of it it developed this

I this one sounds very similar to how he wraps on 1/2 pass it

obviously, which is the same year.

I agree. In my notes, he's like, he's

like a master rhymer now. Yeah, he's really, really

perfected his his art. Absolutely.

And he starts dabbling more in those kind of punch lines and

the metaphors a bit more as well.

Like especially on 1/2 pass it, he's talking about talking about

his role in Who's the man and things like that.

He's a bit more jokey I think in when he moves into the still,

you know, he's got lots of hard hitting stuff, socially

conscious stuff, but he does, he's more punchline based.

Yeah, he's not trying to be so gangster and those early stuff.

He's pretending to be a gangster, but trying to be a

preacher. Whereas, yeah, he's a bit more

like all the other rappers here. Yeah, in my notes, we've got

pretty much everything you've just said.

Oh, great. The Primo Biles and the boom Bap

and Master Rhymer. Like, yeah, I couldn't agree

with what you said. Yeah, absolutely so.

Yeah, absolutely so. But you is this you found this

one? Like, not so much, and I can't

really explain why. I just, it's kind of objectively

really good for all the reasons you've kind of both said.

Like the beat is a lovely kind of crisp drums, nice piano

sample, but it's just one of those tracks that for some

reason just never really kind of got under my skin.

And I don't think the lyrics are especially memorable like for

KRS-one when that's usually the hallmark of the KRS-one song.

There's just not too much about. I mean, I would disagree with

that from my perspective because I like listened to it so much

and memorised and heard it. But I imagine, yeah, if you

weren't into it at the time, maybe.

Well, did you listen to it? Do you have it at the time or

are you aware of it? At the time?

No, no. So coming to it later, yeah, I

can totally understand what you mean.

But it's not about anything either.

No. Which is quite weird.

That's it. But yeah, like if someone said

to me this is in my kind of top 3 premiere beats, I kind of it

wouldn't be in mine, but I would, I would not kind of

admonish them for. It I know I hear you.

I absolutely hear you. OK, So those are the tracks.

My philosophy versus MCS out like they don't know.

Should we vote then? Should we see who's going to win

this one? Obviously I'm going to vote for

MCS, act like they don't know, because that was my choice,

Steve. Well, yeah, obviously I've got

to go for my my philosophy. I think it's I think it's

probably my my favourite KRS is it?

Yeah, I think so. I think so.

It's hard. I've got quite a few that I

like, but that's it's definitely out there.

Yeah. So it's.

Yeah, it's like, I would say my philosophy isn't my favourite

KRS-one track, but I think it is like the quintessential yeah

track and it's scored higher for me.

So yeah, I'm going for my philosophy, yes.

I I think it's just so much more part of the KRS-one Canon.

Yeah, no, I totally. All those quotable wraps there

is. It's so well.

It is so well. Yeah, because once you move into

it 95 and MCS that I don't know that's it's great, but it's not.

Part of the golden hip hop track.

Yeah, yeah. I totally get it.

It's just my tastes. It kind of aligns more with

them. I'm going we'll go over it.

Actually, we've got some of the new guests that we've just want

to see what his take on that result is.

Let's have a listen to Harry Redknapp.

Absolute load of nonsense. What?

He doesn't agree. He's obviously a bigger fan of.

Harry Radnett acts like you don't know.

That's shocking. He definitely does.

All right. Well, that's a win for my

philosophy. So it gets one of these.

Back of the net. So let's move on now to our

second match. Steve, give me another number

between 1:00 and 10:00. 3 please. 3 is 9 millimetre goes

bang, Larry, 7 is Love's going to get you material love, so

that's 9 millimetre goes bang versus Love's going to get you.

Let's have a listen to both of those so.

I had to buck him down with my 9 millimetre.

He said I had this girl. I said no what to you stupid,

But he tried to play me out and KRS-one knew it.

He reached for his sister, but it was just a waste because my 9

millimetre was up against the stage.

He broke up in junior high with AB plus grade.

At the end of the day, I don't hit the arcade.

I walk from school to my mom's apartment.

I've got to tell her suckers every day.

Don't start it. That's where I'm at.

If you're soft, you're lost. Just stay on course means to

roll with force. So that's 9 millimetre goes bang

versus I was going to get you, Larry, 9 millimetre goes bang is

your choice and start us off. It was, yeah.

Yeah. And it's a quintessential track,

I think. That's really, I love it.

I just it's it's got one of those first lines that just

hooks you in. I mean, you're a crack dealer by

the name of Peter. Had to fuck him down with my

nine of the metre. But once you've heard that, you

just you need to know the rest of my how that story pans out

right. And it is one of those kind of

early ones. So it's it's from the first

album, isn't it? Like the third track, I think

yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's got that very basic

stripped down sound, but the drums have got like a really

nice texture to them. The bass line's the same.

And then when you put them together with the vocals, it's

just it's all sort of very hypnotic sounding, I think with

like the yeah, La La La La la bit in the back.

So that's mostly what I've got to say about the, the music.

One thing that I couldn't help but think about was the veracity

of the story, which ended up taking on a little bit of a of a

journey. So I've got a couple sort of

facts for you. So it's kind of started question

with me sort of thinking, has he just made this up?

Because he's kind of realised that Peter rhymes with

millimetres. Thought that would be a that

would be a good rhyme. I'll kind of I'll go with that

unless it's a, a real story. It kind of got me thinking.

I, you know, I'm no expert on this kind of thing and it's not

really my place to to be saying, but I don't like Peter.

It seems like a very white name to me.

And it kind of got me wondering. I, I sort of, I was trying to

Google like is Peter a common name among African Americans?

It doesn't seem like it is. But the one thing I found really

interesting is that it's name. Name of the Greek origin.

Do you know what Peter means? Boozy.

It means rock, Rock Peter. Peter Rock.

Peter Rock. So his name is Rock Rock.

But it also occurred to me when I was thinking of all this that

I've made an assumption that the Peter he's referring to is

black. Right, OK.

Crack dealer. And as a result of that I've

referred myself to an unconscious bias training

programme. Racialist.

Stop me being racist. Yeah, absolutely.

Well, lovely. Thanks for that, Larry.

That's great. I think that deserves a round

of. Applause.

That does deserve a round of applause, Yeah, and a laugh as

well. Yeah.

Great. So it's a good point though,

Larry, was it true? Did this have to actually happen

to Keras one or was? It I mean, if it did really

happen, did it really happen? If it did happen, did we just

change a name to make it rhyme or?

Yeah, names have been changed to technically innocent.

I can add a bit of insight, I think, on Keras at one's

credibility here, because I sometimes think he tries to be

gangster and he and he isn't, but he had a pretty tough

upbringing. Oh yeah, really?

Yeah, I read. I was.

Reading about that group home, didn't he?

Yeah, he got kicked out of home when he was like 16, got into a

group home and then a social worker named Scott La Roque,

which wasn't his real real name, befriended him.

And then they they filmed BDP with with Dean Ice.

And then, of course, Scott La Roque got killed a year after

the criminal minder was was was released with with 9 millimetre.

And you've probably already looked this up, but apparently D

nice had an argument over some girls.

So he he thought Scott the rocker would be a good person to

to help him settle this argument.

So they they've got in their jeeps drove down to this this

project. And anyway, it ended up with the

the the Jeep getting shot at and that's how that's how Scott

looked like basically. So so chaos would definitely, I

think has experienced some some awful stuff in his life.

So he probably he probably does know about what's going on

there. But yeah.

And he's I don't know. It's hard, isn't it, to mix

being hard and gangster and tough, but and also preaching

and being a teacher. Yeah, I think he mostly does

does pull it off. And certainly criminal minded in

this album is mostly about yeah the 9 millimetres and the and

the the feuds he has. I think, I mean, I'm kind of

sure that if he were asked about it, he'd probably just say that

he's kind of speaking about the experiences of people, you know,

like, like him, people that he kind of knew a lot of respect

like that. Aren't they just sort of?

You go from criminal minded as an answer like entertainment and

it definitely there's some there's there's a yeah, a

journey I reckon he's been on. Yeah.

Oh, he's definitely like, he's like having read that stuff

about him today because he, he, he talks about all of that in

out of here. Doesn't mean that rapping in the

shelter system and stuff. Story.

Like, yeah, he's, it's a pretty tragic up upbringing and he's

obviously got such a, he's obviously got such a strong mind

to be able to kind of get through all of that and have

being like one of the top MCS, like as a driving kind of force

in it. That's what he's aspiring to,

and he does it. He was, he was actively seeking

out, like, learning and wisdom. Yeah.

And I was thinking it's a really, really, you know, great

message for anybody, really. Well, absolutely.

I think all that adversity also contributed to him having such a

long career as well, and been sticking around for so long.

Like he's the real deal. He's seen so much that he's one

of done everything in the right way.

And he's had such a long career and so many stories to tell, so

much knowledge he's accumulated over the years.

Yeah, he's really set himself up well.

Definitely Cool. Well, so do you.

Well, what about the music, though, for this one?

Steve? Are you?

Are you is this. Do you like this one?

I. Completely agree with with

Larry. So so criminal minding was an

album that I I came to when I when I got to university and

spent my student loan on like on on, you know, loads of hip hop

albums. I thought I've got to get into

it into care. I sort of got to find more about

BDP. So bought criminal minded.

Absolutely loved it even though, and you you both know I kind of

I quite like that old, those old school sounds.

I just, they just really. I like it.

I like, I like it when it's done right.

Yeah. And this is a like a good

example of it I think. But the thumping bass, I really

like this. Like you said, I didn't really

think of it, but does create that kind of like hip hypnotic,

hypnotic sound. And yeah.

And I think that's why it really, really still works to

this to this day. So yeah, a track that I, I

really, really, I, I would have been close to choosing this

myself, I think. Yeah.

But there's there's a lot of lot of stuff I like criminal minded.

It's really interesting you say that because I, I hadn't really,

I'd known of this track, but I hadn't actually properly

listened to it. Like really.

So I, so I kind of, this was me finding out a bit more about it

and I like genuinely think it's an awful track.

Right. Really.

Yeah, to be honest with you, sounds like the sort of thing

that me and you used to make on our little tape recorder when we

were making rap songs. There's something about that

bass sound. It sounds like it's been played

on a Yammer Yamaha keyboard, yeah.

Now you mentioned it does sound more.

It sounds a bit kind of like, and also I'm not like there's a

kind of a faintly reggaeish field too as well, which I

always Royal Royals meet whenever I hear it.

So this is pretty much tailor made for me not to like it, but

I get that it's from a legendary album and I know that the

production standards back then very different and it was made

at a time. So 1986.

Yeah. So yeah, not for me, this one,

but I understand why you chose it.

And the storytelling is obviously really good, you know,

and it is catchy and it's hooky, but I don't think I would have

even liked this in 87 if I'd have heard it.

I just think it would have been a.

Bit I think, I think for me it's the lyrics and the story that

make it. Yeah, I know.

I totally get it. So, yeah, not for me this one,

but we move over to the other track, Love's Gonna Get you

another sort of crime. One about crime or or sort of

somebody who's turned to crime. Yeah, Yeah.

Legendary track. Really great.

I think the first single off the Edutainment album.

This is your choice. This was my choice, actually.

Yeah. There's no intent.

No, it's Larry's choice. Larry's choice.

Sorry. There's another one.

So yeah, Larry, talk, talk us while you while you wanted this

one on there. Yeah.

I mean, I think I said earlier that my philosophy is, is the

quintessential KRS-one track. But this, this is probably like

a close second to it. And to me, it's it's my

favourite example of my favourite type of KRS-one track,

which is a story. Yeah, yeah.

Which? 9 million it goes bang is a is a

kind of earlier kind of version of this.

It's just he's just telling a compelling story over a simple

but pleasing beat. And it's just a great little

kind of three act structure. Yeah, in the in the story really

good. You know, decisions are made

against a backdrop of like poverty and necessity.

There are consequences in there, like lessons of them along the

way. And then we're kind of left with

a bit of an ambiguous conclusion where he says, you know, ask

what's he supposed to do where he's got these cops.

He's in front of these cops. He's either got to kill them or

go to prison or get killed by them.

He's, you know, I just, I just like that ending of it.

Like, you don't know sort of quite how it ends.

And I, I just, I love like in particular the first verse,

which is sort of all about him as a kid being like coming home

and like his drug dealers in the kind of outside the block.

And he's got a kind of, you know, negotiate that and his

family are really poor. He's like he shares.

He's got 2 pairs of trousers that he shares with his brother.

No, no, no, he's got 1 1/2 pair of.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah.

So 2 pairs between them. So yeah, with 1 1/2 pair of

pants. You ain't cool.

There's some really clever, clever ways in which he outlines

that change from poverty to start down a bit more like he

says. But now there's steak with the

beans and rice. It's really clever because he's

already mentioned it's really good, really good storytelling.

Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's brilliant.

It's Yeah, it hooks you in right from right from the beginning.

I mean, I'm in junior high with AB plus grade.

It's another one of those first lines.

It's like, right, you've got me. I want to know what's what's

next about this? And that was.

What he was so good at wasn't it?

It was his Forte. And of course, it's got a

legendary line and they've got myself a Uzi and my brother and

I sampled on Doctor Dre on the Chronic.

I put that as well. It's just a great storytelling

song, just timeless. I think one of the best, let you

say it's like one of the quintessential KRS storytelling

ones, but probably one of the best in the hold of rap.

Yeah. Like it's hard to think of of a

better one and the intelligence of it.

And it's the other thing is it's like gangster education.

It's like, listen to this if you're thinking of becoming a

gangster, well. Yeah, and also just, you know,

like we know that hip hop is like massively concerned with

like a material last of items in terms of money.

And he's kind of like this like, I don't know what this like

pretty early stuff. And he's kind of talking about

how like that isn't the path to kind of actual fulfilment and.

Stuff like, you know, as an, as an MC in early days, like we

were just saying he came fully formed.

You know, he's saying this stuff.

It's 1990. You know, it's like.

He's he was wise beyond his years.

He really? Was and not many people talk

about loving this way. So it's also like really, really

clever. And of course it's got loads and

those are quotables, but I really like the beat as well.

And it's just. Simple.

Yeah. I mean, I have to say if there's

an area that where it kind of is let down slightly as the beat,

it's quite pedestrian. I like.

It I can see that, but it just serves it.

Perfectly, I'm going to say it's a little bit pedestrian, but it

does work really well for the subject matter.

And also the the chords are quite, yeah, they're quite

sinister, quite eerie. And the little thing on the

chorus, the actual Love's going to get you.

Yeah, I don't know where that comes from, but it's very

atmospheric and very it serves the beat really well.

So there's a lovely, lovely track for me.

Also, I must just mention the video as well.

I don't know if you've ever watched it, but this, my

introduction to it came with the video, which was on MTV large on

MTV, largely shot on a black background with KRS in it and

just sort of acting out what what's happening in the song.

For me it's always kind of intrinsically linked to the

visuals as well, which is, which is sort of heightens it in my

mind as. Well, I can't remember that one

I'm going to have. To have a look, it's good.

But but yeah, so I think we're all big fans of that one.

So should we vote on on this? Yeah, we've got 9 millimetre

goes bang versus Love's going to get you.

I'm going to go for Love's going to get you.

I'm going to vote first if that's all right, for those

reasons. Same with me, it's just an

absolute classic track all round and easy winner for me.

Yeah, exactly the same. Really.

Yeah. It's my, it's my favourite of

his tracks. It's the only 5 out of five.

Incredible for ME3 nil win for Love's going to get you so we

should get gets one of these. Back of the net.

OK, before we move on, I do have a bit of a quiz for you both.

Just a bit of fun, no cash prizes involved or anything.

And we didn't know there was a quiz, so we haven't, no.

Prep. You haven't prep.

I just want to test how how your research into KRS-one went.

So he wants to go far. I'll do 1 now and I'll do one

later. So he wants to go first.

I don't mind. I'll go first.

Yeah, you go first. OK, Here we go.

It's time for a section we like to call.

That's the real quiz, the real quiz, the real quiz, right?

So your first question, Larry, what is the DJ name used by

KRS-one son Chris Parker? What's his DJ name?

Did that come up in any of your research?

Did. Not come up in my research, do

you? Want to have a go, Steve?

Go on. Isn't it DJ Kenny Parker?

No, that's somebody else. Is that his brother?

I think my brother. 'S name is Kenny.

Kenny Parker, Yeah, no. KRS Sons.

KRS-one son's name is Predator Prime.

Predator. Prime.

It's the name he goes by. Yeah.

OK, question number two, name. The 1993 movie starring MTV Raps

hosts Dr. Dre and Ed Lover, in which KRS plays a character

called Rasheed. Who's the man?

Correct. And you know.

That from once you pass it, yeah, your career.

Will be and we mentioned it earlier as well.

Final question for you Larry. Name the 1989 single by Stop the

Violence movement spearheaded by KRS-one.

Don't know. That's called self destruction.

Self destruction. Any good?

It's all right. I remember being played.

It was it's a sort of similar ilk to we're all in the same

gang. The West Coast version.

It's all right. Check it out.

Just before we just before we get back to it, can I just shout

out my wife who when she asked what the topic was today and I

said, well, it doesn't matter because you wouldn't have heard

of him anyway. But then I said it was KRS-one.

She was very pleased with herself for saying that.

It sounded like a number. Plate it.

Does. She like she she will be at home

laughing still. Now I reckon she.

She was howling at herself for about half an hour.

And she'll be laughing, Yeah, when she hears this again, when

she listens back to it, which of course, she does.

Nice. All right, we'll talk about

more. That's the real quiz later on

for you, Steve. Let's move on now with the

shootout. Can you give me another a

different number between 1:00 and 10:00?

#5 please. #5 that's why is that.

And Larry? Have we had one yet?

No, that's poetry. So why is that versus poetry?

More fashion, But here's the. Question I'm asking why is it

young black kids taught black? They're only taught how to read,

write, and act. It's like teaching a dog to be a

cat. You don't teach white kids to be

black. Why is?

That. It's a big idea for us to listen

to the teacher and the lesson classes in session so you can

stop guessing if this is a good or a written down memo to your.

Professional. So this is Steve versus Steve to

come out the hat at the same time.

Yeah, that's really irritating. Isn't it?

So there's going to be some big decisions here for you to have

to make. Well, what do you want to start?

Possibly let's start with poetry because that's the this is the

first track off of the first BDP album.

So for me, this is like a such an important place in my my, my

hip hop, hip hop history. Like I said, this is this now I

picked up when I was at uni and then just just loved, loved it.

So we've already mentioned this and I put this in my notes.

It's like the production on this album, particularly this track

is pretty sparse, but I think it still retains like a bit of a

funky flavour which I think is which is quite, they're quite

tricky to do. A lot of that comes from the

James Brown samples I would imagine as well.

Possibly. There's a lot of James Brown all

over that. Beat.

I think the drum also manages to sound funky as well, which makes

it catchy enough, but also allows kind of chaos to take

kind of centre stage and a little aside with a beat here.

And Larry will will definitely agree agree with me here that

obviously this was heavily sampled by MF Doom on on

Doomsday. So it has like and now an extra

place in my heart, a dual place in my heart and I.

And I can't help thinking of both rappers and both albums

when when this when this plays. And then yeah, that we it was.

It's annoying really that that my philosophy came out first in

this, in this podcast, because this is probably his first

introduction to, to, to, to, to the, to the world.

And, and it is his first opportunity to try to, to, to

teach and to reach people with what he's, what he's trying to

say. So there there is only he kind

of says there is only one KRS. So already like, I don't know,

he really kind of understands that he is he is he's he's I

know all rappers kind of brag about how good they are, but he

he's he's kind of stating that in his in his introduction here.

And it's just his flow on this album is pillar.

So you've you've got some kind of like contemporaries of the

time in terms of like you got paid in full that came out

around about the same time and and bigger and deffer with LL

Cool J. But he he he does kind of like

match them. And I don't know, there's

sometimes where I think he exceeds them, sometimes think,

Oh, he's the he's the best rapper of all time.

And other times I'm, I'm not quite so sure.

But on this track, I think he's he's he's flawless.

His his flow is peerless on this track.

Yeah, it's just one that I have an emotional attachment to like

you do, Danny. But also I think technically I

like a lot about it as well. So that's why I love this track

so much. Yeah, yeah, it's a.

Good point. You're probably going to hate

it. Well, no, I don't hate it.

I mean, it's it's very much of it's time.

It's that the production is very dated and sparse like we

mentioned earlier on. So it doesn't automatically

appeal to me and not as I said earlier, I didn't get into

criminal minded at the time and never like later got into it

either. So a lot of these I did hear for

the first time properly in research.

Yeah. So as you can imagine, like, you

know, I don't think it's incredible.

But as an MC, I agree with everything you say.

Steve, you know, this is a really great showcase.

He's just in. He's got a real good command of

of the lyrics and his flow. And he's just so authoritative,

even at this early stage on his first album, First track of the

first album. Particularly that time when the

hip hop was was evolving in its style.

Like the way that Rakim would have moved it forward.

Chaos One would have done in his style as well.

He had something to say and he said it really well and I think

that's what kind of made him blow up in those early albums.

But you know, it's not massively my cup of tea, although I do.

Again, like we said with my philosophy, there's so many

sampled lines in it as well, like loads of bits I recognise

that have been taken. So which is always an indication

of how revered it is among producers.

So yeah, not, not not massively for me.

But Larry, what are your thoughts?

Do you? Do you like this one?

Yeah, I haven't got much more to say about it.

Just, you know, echoing what Steve said about, you know,

classic drums and also the scratching as well that was that

was used by MF Dome. It's good, but there's nothing

that sort of massively hooks me in about the the lyrics on it,

really unlike the other two tracks from this album that

we're looking at today. It's funny how actually the the

first 3 tracks on the album are all of the ones that we're

talking. About from the album.

Definitely hold it like an emotional, sentimental

connection. And like you said, it's a shame

that we've already spoken about my philosophy, because I feel

that that one is just a better version of this.

Definitely the sequel to It's Also Thinking True, We Don't

Talk About This Enough is that hip hop is poetry and he's like

quite ease to kind of talk about that in this rap.

He's the poet laureate of hip hop, you might say, as well as

the president. But so let's move on to Part 2

of the Steve double bill. This is why is that.

This is from the ghetto music, the ghetto Music album.

So talk us through why you wanted this one in here.

I think probably I don't know what you 2 are going to think of

it. It's I also kind of have a bit

of a sentimental connection to this as well.

It's just it's just one of those tracks like I don't necessarily

like the rest of that album. There's not it's not like an

album that I that I love in the same way that I love criminal

minded. But but this track just and

again, probably exemplifies why I like chaos one, because he's

getting to be the teacher. He's getting the lyrics make you

think a bit more kind of deeper about things.

He's definitely kind of thick in metaphors and passion for, for,

for what he's rapping about. And, and when I listened to this

the first time, this is this was a little bit mind blowing when

he, when there's that explanation about Shem and like

Jesus being black and Moses being black.

And I thought for me at the time when I first started that that

is quite like, it's quite a mind blowing thing.

And so you don't again, you don't how many rap most rappers

are rapping about, you know, all the usual stuff, the gangster

stuff. But he's he's brave enough to

be, you know, trying to teach and to preach as well, which

which which I thought was really good, which he also does in one

of the tracks actually you've chosen, which will come up

later, Danny. So.

So yeah. And another one that's got not a

really big sentimental connection with me.

And yeah, just to catch you little number again.

Do you EE those sentiments, Larry?

Is this? One, yeah, I really like this.

I think it's a musically, it's a great mix of samples just, yeah,

really nice kind of bit of bit of music.

You know, KRS earns his title of teacher by kind of, you know,

giving that alternative sort of Christian history.

I, I, I, I haven't looked at it today, but I have looked at this

kind of stuff before. And I, I think, I mean, I think

most of this stuff is based on kind of the teachings of like

Elijah Muhammad. I don't think that it's got a

lot of kind of serious credibility, credibility to it.

I kind of get, I sort of completely understand to the

point of it and the sort of fact that we always think of like,

you know, a blue eyed white Jesus and that.

Just. Obviously wouldn't have looked

like that, but all of the kind of stuff about like the black

Israelites and stuff. I don't, I don't, I might be,

might be wrong, but I don't think there's, I think it's sort

of disputed kind of stuff, but it's really interesting and

it's. Eye opening.

And what's more kind of, I think what's more salient is the fact

that is when he's kind of talking about teaching white

kids, teaching black kids to be white, like in their school

system, not taking their cultural heritage into account.

And yeah, that's just obviously really kind of interesting,

important kind of stuff. And this is what's so great

about hip hop is that people like us on this side of the

pond, living in our kind of rural backwater.

That's kind of how, for me at least, that's how I learnt about

all of this kind of stuff is through rap.

Yeah, yeah. Which is great.

Steve, you're a, you're an actual teacher.

You kind of, you went through a lot to gain your qualifications

like Violet, you know, legitimates.

But not the nor roots do. You do you sort of approve of

him? Like using that self appointed

title. Well, it's interesting so isn't

it because he he knowledge reigns supreme over everyone

Used to be his his moniker and then he changed it to nearly.

RC he exchanged it so he was KRSOE.

I think he was just, yeah, he used, he used to brag about

that, didn't he? I'm sure he did.

Maybe, just maybe I'm just making that up.

But now I've I've got no problems with him if he's

listening and he wants to come and do some teaching at myself.

Would you I mean? Would you let him teach your

children? Yeah.

Or would. You want to vet his.

He'd have to be DBS checked. He'd have to be DBS checked.

Yeah, I probably wouldn't let him teach RE or or maybe I'd

probably let him teach history. Yeah, but RE yeah, wouldn't.

I don't think it would. I don't think it would meet the

standards for the like. It wouldn't meet the church

being the standards. Curriculum criteria, Would it,

I'd say. And you do poetry though A.

Line. There's a particular line in

this that I really like and it goes back to him, like his

particular personality type and what he preaches, which is the

stereotype must be lost that love, peace and knowledge is

soft. Yeah, yeah.

That's what he's quite. He's quite open about those

things and like just yeah, talking about love and all that

sort of stuff. And he should be credited.

That's where he's spread, especially President.

He's respected. He's properly respected.

Absolutely, yeah. Did you like it then?

Well, like I, I totally agree with you about the sort of the

teaching element of it. Like there's loads and loads of

really great insight in the lyrics and what he's talking

about. You know, he's he's really

living up to his role as the teacher in this one.

But that doesn't always add up to something that particularly

resonates with me. And what it doesn't help that

it's being delivered over a kind of what I would describe as a

fairly kind of pedestrian beat. It's not exactly.

There's nothing that stands out about it for me.

It's good. It's.

I really like, I really like that piano.

Yeah, Oh yeah, the loop's pretty good.

I don't know where that comes from.

It's quite familiar, but it's. I, I, I, I listened to it

earlier. It's a pretty straight kind of

take. But I think typically KRS

production is always average, maybe a little bit better than

average. It's never brilliant.

I don't think there's many tracks you can say that he's a

brilliant producer, but he's definitely.

Maybe they're given he wants his words to shine rather than the

music. Often that's.

What always kind of strikes me about his stuff is that it's

there. It's there to serve his message

absolutely. I think it's also hard, isn't

it, to produce a hip hop track that's that's better than an

average. Just have to like, yeah, that is

true. We're not DJ.

He's not DJ Premier or or Doctor Dre that can just do do that

regularly. Anyway, sorry, I interrupted.

No, no, it's fine. No, but I don't really have much

more to say really. It's it's just that this is one

of those kind of a little bit forgettable tracks for me that

just of of the ones we've got here just went under the radar.

Not a lot to say, some great insight in the track itself and

the lyrics, but yeah, it didn't stand out.

So should we vote then? We've got So what was it poetry

versus? Why is that?

I gave both of them two. I gave both of them two.

But that's, well, that's got to give yourself.

What else? Harry Redknaut's What to say

about that? Should we?

Yeah, obviously, you know, it's a, it's a big disappointment.

And I understand that, you know, 2 is quite a low score for for

somebody so legendary. I just can't help it.

They didn't really jump out. I can understand 2 for why is

that? But I think I don't know.

I'm just. Kind of.

It's the it's that old school. Production.

I just like that. Yeah.

I'm so sentimental. Well, I'm going for poetry

because sentimentally it's it's a trap that that has a lot of

meaning for me. Yeah, or what?

I have the class to vote this. Well, maybe.

Let's see what. I'm going for.

Why is that? Because I I I like the music and

I love that verse about the right, the gene genealogy of

Shem. Shem.

Yeah. Shem was a black man in Africa.

If you repeat this fact, they can't laugh at you.

Right. Yeah.

OK. Well, I'm going to go for poetry

in that case as well. I think it kind of, yeah, I

preferred that one marginally. So that is a win for poetry and

it gets one of these. Back of the net.

How are we doing? Who's who's in the lead so far,

Steve? And you're, you're you're on

the. Well, I I scores.

This week. I, I don't want to kind of tempt

fate really, but the three that I voted for and wanted to of of

all one so far. This is a very unusual,

uncomfortable podcast I'm having at the moment.

So we've got my philosophy Love's going to get you in

poetry. We've all gone through which are

my my 3 faves. So that's Steve over there at

the video printer. Cool.

Well, let's move on with the next one.

If you can remember what numbers you haven't picked yet, give me

another number between. I'll go for #8 sorry that the

number. 8 is out of here and six is beef.

So that's out of here versus beef.

Here's what they sound like. So.

We would go to the park when they were jamming, they hear

rap. I used to listen to the cops

broke it up. I always thought to myself,

damn, why they fucked it up. But nevertheless, I was in love

with the microphone and it stayed that way until I left

home on the It's in New York now, I'm free.

The stress. The cow gets sicker. 21

different drugs of pumps into the cow in one big lump.

So just before it dies, it cries in the slaughterhouse full of

germs and flies off with the head.

They pack it, drain it and card it and there it is in.

Your there out of here and beef out of here was yours Larry from

the Return of the Boom Bap album or the very best of KS one?

Probably talk straight then. What's your what are your

thoughts on this one? Just all about the beat for me

on this one. It's it's a premier beat and

it's kind of typical of his work at the time.

It's just so it's dusty and raw and it's just a one bar loop and

sometimes those ones are annoying, but this is just

happens to be one of those ones where I could listen to it like

basically endlessly. It's just it just feels it's

just so hip hop. It is.

You can feel, you can hear those 12 bits and that's what I that's

what I love about it. What the The word that comes to

mind whenever I hear the beat is bouncy.

It just bounces along. It's really like, yeah, but when

it rolls, yeah, it's really good.

And Careless sounds great on it as well.

Just another good example of his storytelling, going through his

personal history, which we which we've touched.

On Webby. Taking rappers out in the

shelter system and all that kind of stuff.

Yeah, brilliant. Love it.

Yeah, yeah, it's a really a real head nod.

A really head nod. Lovely.

Yeah, the idea of him battling rappers in the shelter system,

that's about as underground as it gets.

It's. Learning.

It's really, yeah, like this doesn't.

Like an up and coming boxer, like going from like fighting in

the box cars. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, yes, yeah, there's it's absolutely head nodded the great

subject matter, simple hook, proper hip hop.

I don't think there's ever been more aptly titled LP name

really. The the return of the Boom Bap

is what this is. Exactly what had him it's.

Actually a really good album. There's loads of great stuff on

there, lots of DJ Premier productions actually, and this

is early. Premier and KRS-one do go well

together. They do.

And like Premier has obviously had some interesting hookups

over the years. But yeah, I think he's always

good with KRS-one. Yeah, they're made for each.

So that's out here. So the other track is Beef,

which is my choice and this sort of.

Stamps Hang on before we move on.

Oh. If you've got more to.

Yeah, just one more thing about it.

I love the sample Boogie Davenport, and they ain't no

joke. I just think that I don't know

that just yeah, I don't know, just that's such a nice.

I don't know. Premier is so.

He's so clever. Together.

Yeah. Like, that's just, that's his

genius, isn't it? He's picking out these little

phrases. He's an absolute beast, Yeah.

And this is this is kind of pre when he would cut up the thing

on the on the chorus as well. But he really took that to the

next level with some of the later stuff, didn't he?

His his chorus hooks are incredible, Yeah.

Danny, you've got some explaining to do with beef,

because I know that this is. I know that you like this track.

Yeah. And it is the most basic, kind

of rudimentary, spare piece of music in his discography.

Really. I don't.

So I'm just interested to, I'm interested to hear you justify

yourself. Can I just jump on that

bandwagon? Because on the, on the group

chat, when, when I was going through the, the chats, I had

to, I, I thought it got in by mistake.

I thought I thought you'd either put it in there as a joke,

because do you remember? I had to clarify.

It's like, yeah, yeah, you have. Chosen Beef Of all the KRS-one

tracks that you could have chosen, and I think you said

something like, I love this track.

Yeah, that's why we're here, isn't it?

To put those tracks in that you probably wouldn't necessarily

talk about otherwise. And I just, as I said, I got

into KRS through Edutainment, the Edutainment album and this

one on there kind of always just stood out for me.

It kind of fascinated me really. Does that be?

I know it's really basic and it's just a loop, but it just

where's it from? I just I haven't looked it up

it. Is a sample I think, but I don't

know. I didn't kind of bother looking

into it. I think it was.

Just so memorable, that sample, that little baseline and the

drums. So that's what hooked me at the

start, sort of that. I thought you gonna say because

of your love of food. Well, I honestly, honestly can't

think of any other. Like I do like my food, and

specifically I do like beef. So that doesn't make any sense.

But so the the subject matter's really interesting as well, like

he's talking about something that I don't think's ever been

talked about since or before. It's.

Incredible. It's not a surprise because he's

a vegan activist. So he's a he's a like a staunch

vegan. So that's this is obviously he's

nothing. You know, it's to be expected,

but I just thought a track that describes the horrendous

conditions that cows are in and how beef, you know, comes to

market and all these different things.

I thought it was fascinating subject matter.

I was always just intrigued. Me married to this really weird,

kind of odd off kilter beat. It's really unique.

Isn't it? Yeah, it's really.

And I just. It just always stood out in my

it stuck in my head all these years and I had to put it here

because it was just interesting, really.

He's. Really.

Like is he the only hip hop vegan?

I doubt vegetarian. I bet most stuff is vegan.

Yeah, probably. Yeah.

And interestingly, this track's reminiscent of that new World

water track where he's talking about the water.

Yeah, stuff. This is like the the cow

equivalent. Yeah, definitely.

So I don't know, I just always loved it.

It's the one track off of vegetable that sticks in my

mind. Apart from Love's gonna get you,

obviously. Because because they're then

that's only a good track really on album, but then it's.

Not gonna get you? Yeah, it's not.

It's not a fantastic album. But yeah, but I but I do like

this track as well. I like it for the for the

reasons you like it, like quirky beats and the content.

I think it's sort of the most bizarre subject matter I've ever

addressed in rap. I kind of I got into, I sort of

wondered why it was. And this come it comes back to

this character, Elijah Muhammad, the Nation of Islam kind of

founder or leader. And he basically he wrote a

series of books called How to Eat to Live.

And this is obviously where it's all cripped from.

And when I kind of mentioned earlier that he's not

necessarily the kind of a verifiable source of knowledge,

it's it's stuff like this. He did not believe that bread

and cakes should be eaten directly from the oven and

supported waiting a day or two before consuming them and for

baking bread twice. So this is what's the science

behind that? Exactly.

And this is the man who's kind of, you know, revising the the

Bible. So I don't know well.

The other thing I don't understand is I thought beef was

all right. I think it's not for a vegan

it's not, but like. Pork is the one that.

Pork's the one, this one like. A lot of religions have a

problem with. But it's the, it's the red meat

in the in the link to the cardiovascular stuff that talks

about having heart attacks and stuff.

Yeah, I don't think this isn't, this isn't a religious I was led

to be. No, no.

He's basically saying you are what you eat, isn't it?

That's basically what he's saying.

So, So that's where you like. So.

KFC so much. Exactly.

I had one last night. Beautiful.

So yeah, a great. So Gemma, just something that

really stuck with me. So that's why it's here.

But it's time to vote then in that case, out of here against

beef. Steve, let's start with you.

I think it's pretty. It's pretty obvious it's the the

best head nodder that we've got on the on the on the podcast

today. It's out of here.

Good lad, Larry. I would have liked to have given

Beef a vote, but it's got to be out of here.

It's just clearly the better track I think.

Yeah, well, I'm going to. I mean, I gave them both 3, but

I am going to stick with my guns for the track.

I chose Beef 21 defeat for a meaty meaty battle there between

those two carers tracks OK. We'll leave the beef there

though, yeah? Absolutely.

So moving on to our final match up.

So that is South Bronx, the legendary track South Bronx

against Madism 10. Many people tell me this star is

terrific. I've got a special clip for what

I think Larry thinks of this one.

OK. And I'll just say it's fine.

So let's see if that. Comes true so much yeah.

Let's see if that comes true. But so Steve, talk us through

this match up. Then we've got South Bronx,

which is one of the most legendary discs or beef tracks,

ironically. Yeah, nice little.

Of all time, and I imagine you're a big fan of this.

Nice stuff. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, it's definitely one of those, you know, Chaos one has

his like temple of hip hop, doesn't he?

And this would definitely be one of the the hymns that have

constantly played because it's it's such a iconic track.

And and and and then and in rap we get a lot of this kind of

like this beef, don't we? And a lot of lot of

braggadocious stuff. But there was there was a really

good feud going on at the at the time, you know, trying to work

out, yeah, where where where was hip hop founded?

And there's another track on here this CNMC sound called the

Bridge as well, which is also also really good on.

So this is South Bronx from from criminal from the criminal.

So yeah, it's just great that the brag, the braggadocious, it

gives you also kind of like going back and listening to like

later on, it gives you a little insight into the history of hip

hop as well, kind of like what was going going on at the time

and the kind of feuds. So yeah, it's it's it's a really

iconic beat, really iconic rap and should be held I think in

really, really high, high esteem by by the like the hip hop

community. Yeah, I've got exactly those

words written here on my my notes that one of the most

iconic beats of all time. Like the minute you hear it, you

know what it is. And it's that horn stab.

I think it makes it so instantly recognisable.

James Brown. And they pitch it up and down

within the track, you know, and. They do the weird silly thing

there at the end though, which I don't do.

Yeah, yeah. I like, I quite like that

personally. Yeah, I like it.

I like it when they pitched it down so to a different note and

yeah, a midway through one of the verses.

Yeah. Do you don't like that, Steve?

What they did messing about with that horn?

I just think it's just at the end, it just still gets a bit

too daft. So yeah, it just ruins the

ending. I probably skip it when it gets

that bit right, right at the end.

But but everything else about it is is really, really catchy.

And I guess like also like that shouty chorus.

I don't know. This is probably one of the most

early examples of the the shouty.

Chorus, the shouty chorus. But also it's with the beat

switches as well, doesn't it? It livens up a little bit and

they they add a few more elements in there which actually

works quite well for the chorus, but I just think that beat is

just instantly recognisable. I think it's worth like 3 alone

just for the the sound of it It's.

Sparse Jlo sound of this as well.

Yeah, somebody, Yeah, I think so.

Anyway, Yeah, it's an iconic, just instantly recognisable

beat. And yeah, it's very sparse,

quite under under produced, especially in the verses.

But but yeah, a slight hip hop history.

It's a, it's a good example of, you know, as we've kind of said

during this episode, like those kind of sparse beats aren't

always kind of for us, but I think it's one of the best

examples of it. And that kind of style works

best when you've got somebody as good as KRS rapping on it

because it's just nothing to distract from his from what he's

kind of saying. And yeah, the history of it is

great. It's apparently kind of like the

this is like the second, like beef, like in rap, like the

first one was like the Roxanne, right?

Yeah, kind of walls and like the bridge walls about the second

one. And for that and for disc tracks

to become such a big part. Of hip hop called integral part

yeah it's. Yeah.

It's a really kind of formative thing.

And apparently what makes that sort of interesting part of that

is that it was in response, obviously, to the bridge.

And this song was first premiered at a concert where Mt

Shan had just performed. That song.

Yeah, so that. Would have been That would have

been amazing. Sing like in kind of in person.

It's brilliant, yeah. So without further ado, let's

move over to madism. Larry, what do you think of

that? And I'll just say it's fine.

Yeah, that's basically it. I've got in fact another this.

Is your pick. Was it?

It was my pick. Yeah, I'm ready for it.

But go. On I just I.

My notes just say See above, and that's in relation to MC's act

like they don't know. Like it's objectively really

good I but I it just doesn't really.

It's from an era where you maybe weren't in tune.

It was kind of, it was quite an obscure album at the time.

I think the Channel Live 1 I did.

I did have like a best of. Yeah, what best of channel?

Of madism that you was it was it the track called What's the

what's the album called? Station identification.

So you had you had given me like if your versions of it was about

the six best tracks and whatever and I it just never kind of got

its claws into me at all. But objectively, like the beat

at least is a really nice beat. Like, listening to it just now,

it's like, Oh yeah, actually I might have misjudged this one.

It's quite a nice hard beat actually.

It's probably one of the harder beats that KRS has produced and

there's like kind of that hard bass and and they go out at the

rapping quite hard as well. They do, yeah.

And it's kind of got a kind of a dark, quite eerie sample going

all the way through. It's a bit repetitive, but it it

it kind of sets the mood nicely for that.

This so this is produced by KRS. So this is produced by KRS-one,

Yeah. And he features on it as well.

Yeah. And this.

Sort of like his posse like channel live debate.

Yeah, they they, he took them under his wing and he produced

them and yeah, they were kind of his people.

And this track was massive at the time.

This was like one of those mixtape kind of tracks.

It was talked about a lot in the Source and all that.

So it was, it kind of didn't. This is their best known track,

Madison. This is their big song and the

reason I bought the album as well in the 1st place was for

this. This song?

Yeah, this came out before the album.

Yeah, definitely. And I think they, I think

channelised themselves as we heard in that clip.

The guy asked them which one it was, but hit the very distinct

voice quite, almost like grave degree type voice.

And I thought they were quite underrated rappers personally.

I thought they were pretty good, but they didn't.

Nobody talks about them anymore. There's a reason, you might say.

For good reason. Well, that's bang out of order.

But, you know, I think they were better than they maybe, you

know, should have been, should have been a bit better known.

But there you go. There was one good line in that

I love. Like Lionel Richie, your whole

style is bitchy, which I like. But yeah, no, it's just this.

This is just one of those tracks that I always loved.

We'd put it on compilations and I can't really say much more

about it. And I just really like it.

You've had some strange KRS choices today, Beef and madisms,

but. Well, maybe you can talk about

this later and I'll breakdown episode, but some of this, what

would you have put on there? You can tell us later on the

next. But yeah, yeah, I mean, as I

said, but this kind of is born from the fact that I didn't get

into KRS, you know, in the early stuff.

Anyway, let's vote on that one then.

We've got, well, he's definitely a vote for Madison for me and

South Bronx. I would definitely go for South.

Bronx. Yeah, South Bronx, 5%.

All right, fair enough. That's a 21 win for South Bronx

and he gets this. Back of the net.

Did you say I picked the winner in every single?

Range. Well, this was your.

Unprecedented it. Probably was, but this was your

topic. It was my topic as well, so I'm

really, I'm really pleased. You did months of research into

it, Years, if anything. Years of research crisis.

Yeah. Your whole life's been leading

to this. Yeah, All right, what we're

going to do now is go away and look at the scores, the true

scores for each of those tracks, add them up, and then we'll work

out what's the overall winner is.

But before we do that, Steve, you've got your quiz questions.

Yeah, so here we go for Part 2 of That's the Real Quiz.

Real quiz, Real quiz. OK, question one, name the song

an artist the KRS-one was dissing on South Bronx.

I just said it. MC Shang.

Yeah, and the song the. Bridge.

Correct. OK Question 2.

With whom did KRS collaborate on his 2007 album Hip Hop Lives?

Oh geez, I should know this just like this.

Your time. Give me a clue.

Give me a. Clue Legendary hip hop producer.

Legendary hip hop producer. Molly Moe.

Correct, Larry. Good.

Well done. Question three.

Final question. What was the name of the hero in

the 32 page comic book Break the Chain that KRS created with

illustrator Kyle Baker in 1994? Scott the Rock.

If I don't know, it's Big Joe Crash, that's Joe Crash.

That's that's. Did you read the whole of that

to to just get that fact? Well, I did read it in the

research, but I do remember it because they used to play the

video for it on MTV when it came out and it was like a comic

animated video, comic book character.

They are hard questions. They were.

I think so, yeah. They definitely were, and I

can't even remember how many you got right and how many you got

right. One each.

One each. SO I think we've learned that

hip hop is the winner. I think hip hop is a real

winner. All right, cool, right.

We're going to go away and top up the scores.

We'll be back after this short break.

This is Michael Jackson, and you're listening to Hip Hop

World Cup, the world's baddest rap podcast.

OK, we're back. We're going to go over now to

Steve at the Vidi printer with all his machinery.

He's calculated all the data, he's crunched all the numbers

and he's got the results. It's going to just say it's been

such a pleasure doing KRS-one, so thank you both for it, for

indulging me in one of my, my favourite rappers pleasure.

I think we've done him justice. So I think the the the final

rankings are fairly predictable. So in 5th place on 10 points was

poetry and then enjoying 3rd place on 11 points was out of

Here and South Bronx. Oh wow.

Yeah, SS Bronx is done well though, I reckon.

Not done well. And then in second place was my

philosophy, which means. 2nd place the.

Winner and 13 points. I think probably deserves to win

because it's it is a classic. Is Love's going to get you?

Oh wow. Yeah, that's kind of happy with

that. I think that that was my

favourite. That's my favourite track of

yours. I think that's a worthy.

Yeah. Yeah, I, I, I'll go along with

that. I think that's a pretty decent

winner. Yeah, that's a good way of, you

know, exemplifies, doesn't it, him in so many different ways.

So yeah, good. The storyteller, the teacher,

the philosopher. Yeah, yeah, all all in one

track, right. OK, well, yeah.

So Love's going to get you. Gets this.

OK, so we've established scientifically that Love's going

to get you as the best KOS one song.

Do you agree or disagree with our winner?

Please let us know what you think on X Instagram threads and

blue sky. Just search at hip bot World

Cup. Give us a follow and let let us

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That's it. We're out of here.

Thanks for listening, and we'll see you for our next shootout.

Peace. Good looking boy and.

I'll just say it's fine.